Questions about driver dispersion

[adlo]

OK, I have been experimenting between 2 drivers, and it has raised some questions.

On one hand I have my 10.5 TM TB with HMOI 60R, playing at 45" and SW somewhere around D1. I hit fairways with this driver. It feels super stable, but the distance dispersion is driving me mad. Today I hit 2 drives on the screws (without swinging harder-my normal lazy swing) and they both went around 240m (on a flat hole, not downwind etc- probably 225 carry or so). A few other slight off centre hits were travelling around 210-220m with roll. A few balls out more towards the heel were lucky to travel 180m. This combo launches quite high and seems to be putting a lot of back spin on the ball. Also, the slower my tempo the better the results. I really struggle with this driver into the wind at the moment.

Edit: I am not someone who thinks I can drive the ball 240m all the time. I would say more like 220m.

The other driver is question is the 10.5 Mizuno MX700 with Javln V6 R, playing at a smidge under 45" and SW D2.5. Out of the screws this driver will go a little bit further than my TM TB. However, whether hit slightly off centre or quite a bit off centre it seems to travel about 200-210m and flies quite low. I seem to having more problems controlling this driver, perhaps with less backspin it is spraying a bit more.

So, my questions are:

1) What distance variations do most people experience between centre and slight off centre hits with their drivers?

2) What would be a good way to reduce the spin on the TM TB HMOI? Would tipping it 1/2" or so help? Would a bit more swing weight help?

Any help would be appreciated. Cheers gents.

[goonie]

maybe you should swap the shafts, sounds like you need more spin in the Mizzy and less in the TM, what is the Javlins spin specs like?

[adlo]

The JavlnFX is mid kick, mid launch, torque is 4.2.

[Ferrins]

I'll let you know when I hit one in the centre

[Yossarian]

Your not really spraying the zuno, more just topping it?
Which is more of a confidence thing? Learn to be the club. Then the ball.

[adlo]

I'll let you know when I hit one in the centre
:lol: Awesome

Your not really spraying the zuno, more just topping it?
Which is more of a confidence thing? Learn to be the club. Then the ball.

Cheers Nuffie.

Yeah, the topped drive thing is mental. Anyway, haven't really been controlling the zuno as well as I would like.

[rebjon]

hmmmm Mizuno....hmmmmm

[adlo]

You absolutely
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41B4NATSJTL._SL500_AA280_PIbundle-4,TopRight,0,0_AA280_SH20_.jpg

the MX700 the other day Rebjon. The shaft might suit you more than it suits me.

[razaar]

Mate, try putting some sticky labels on the face and try different tee heights and ball positions. Five balls with each and record the results. Remember with the driver it is important to hit past yourself and not to move onto the ball position.

[virge666]

Mate, try putting some sticky labels on the face and try different tee heights and ball positions. Five balls with each and record the results. Remember with the driver it is important to hit past yourself and not to move onto the ball position.

That is easily the best suggestion here,

Hit the middle more often - the ball will go further. Changing the shaft won't do diddly squat.

Your swing has to suit the head design. I you mis hits don't suit the club head - then you have the wrong clubhead.

For example - toe hits don't suit Titleist heads - heel hits don't suit the Pings.

[TheNuclearOne]

That is easily the best suggestion here,

Hit the middle more often - the ball will go further. Changing the shaft won't do diddly squat.

Your swing has to suit the head design. I you mis hits don't suit the club head - then you have the wrong clubhead.

For example - toe hits don't suit Titleist heads - heel hits don't suit the Pings.


I'd be wary of downplaying the role of the shaft tho. It does all start with the clubhead, but if you've got the wrong shaft nothing is going to help.

Playing the wrong shaft can actually, in many cases, cause the very mishits you speak of without even getting into spin rates and launch.

[Johnny Canuck]

IN ALL HONESTY:

You are 6'5", 100kg.

You should not be using a reg shaft.

Swing like you can, controlled, and hit it 250+ with, more than likely, the exact same shot dispersion.

I am not having a go. I am being 100% serious.

[virge666]

I'd be wary of downplaying the role of the shaft tho. It does all start with the clubhead, but if you've got the wrong shaft nothing is going to help.

Playing the wrong shaft can actually, in many cases, cause the very mishits you speak of without even getting into spin rates and launch.

Bullshit.

Unless you are 25gr too heavy or 3 flexes off you are only going to hit it higher or lower. yeah - it will feel awful, but that is what the shaft is for. The shaft is just used to control the spin rate. It will NOT adjust your launch angle by anymore than a degree either way.

If you are losing 10-15% with a mishit - you have the wrong head or your mishit. But I and many others are happy to sell you an expensive shaft if it makes you or the mishit feel better.

[TheNuclearOne]

Bullshit.

Unless you are 25gr too heavy or 3 flexes off you are only going to hit it higher or lower. yeah - it will feel awful, but that is what the shaft is for. The shaft is just used to control the spin rate. It will NOT adjust your launch angle by anymore than a degree either way.

If you are losing 10-15% with a mishit - you have the wrong head or your mishit. But I and many others are happy to sell you an expensive shaft if it makes you or the mishit feel better.

It's not bullshit at all Virge. Just like the Titty shafts. Sometimes you shock me. To imply being a flex or two (not to mention profile!) off in a shaft will only affect trajectory and not dispersion/direction is just silly. Jesus. Being two flexes off and polar opposites on the profile scale will also sure as heck make more than a 1 degree launch diff too. You didn't even mention profile :smt108

Lets make a case example. Player X swings at 110mph and has a fast transition. Are you going to tell me he is only off in trajectory when using say an NVS-75s vs a 7Z08x? That NVS is going to fold like a stack of cards! Hook and balloon city here we come.

Recently there was a good case study of a 73yo golfer with a very average swing speed using reg flex irons. When put on the new age Fit Chip system it was found his load and force (because of quick transition) demanded a stiff flex. He gained 10 to 15 yards thru the irons and an astounding amount of accuracy. His scores dropped 5 odd shots basically overnight.

I'm still shocked you don't think shafts affect dispersion (excepting a 3 flex or 25 gram error)

[TheNuclearOne]

In an ideal world it's like this Adlo. You have to figure out your own needs shaft and head wise. This can be done via experimenting, LM's, luck etc.

Shaft wise you have to work out your preferred flex, profile and weight, and if we go silly serious SW and length of driver. It does indeed make a difference. Some guys will kill an 85 gram shaft at 44 inches yet not be able to hit the norm.

You say you're struggling into the wind. A well fit driver will cut thru the wind very well within reason. Many driver setups that struggle into the wind go surprisingly well downwind. Is this the case too?

The best cheapest way for you to get an idea might be to try various drivers from the pro shop. Try a stiff, try a reg, try an 8.5, try a 10.5 etc. Thru much frigging around i know i like heads that are low spin in about an 8.5* and slightly open face, and shafts of the Blueboard 73s ilk, about 70 grams, stiff, and reasonably stiff tip etc.

[razaar]

We were having a chat over a few drinks yesterday about how much easier the game has got with the new technology (clubs and balls) yet we don't seem to score any better. IMO blaming shafts etc. for poor results is just plain wrong and will only lead one into a psychosomatic state about equipment when the real problem is our own lack of ability, understanding and performance.

Here is a bit of technical stuff about us which is far more important than a flex or two difference.

Like all movements, golf is a series of repeated muscular contractions regulated by the nervous system and directed by motor learning pathways. Purposeful movement depends on ultimate communication among all the mechanisms that regulate muscle length and tension.

The control nervous system processes information provided through five basic sensory analyzers.
Proprioceptive or body awareness
Tactile or sense of touch
Vestibular or balance and equilibrium
Optic or visual
Acoustic or auditory

Nothing new in this but sometimes we tend to forget that we are the ones that make things happen and golf is a constant series of adjustments.:)

[adlo]

OK, thanks for the advice thus far.

Virge, I am not trying to justify buying some exotic shaft. Merely trying to understand whether or not the shaft is having a part to play in my situation described in the first post. Perhaps the head does not suit me. I appreciate your thoughts and will try and hit a few more head designs.

TNO, yes, my TMTB goes very well downwind... even if the tailwind is only slight. I have hit a lot of drivers over the years, and quite a few shafts. I have based my bag on the results from working out what I liked. I have found I like something with a soft tip that suits a smooth transition. However, the shafts in my driver and 3 wood appear to be giving me some grief at the same time, so perhaps my swing has changed slightly. The shafts in my other clubs are going a bit better.

Johnny Canuck, I know what you are saying. I used to hit clubs with stiff shafts. The results were no better. I found I started to play better golf when I relaxed and didn't feel like I needed to belt the ball. Most aftermarket reg's can take a much higher swingspeed than the flex charts suggest.

Razaar, I think you suggestion about the experimenting with ball position etc is a very good one and I will do that. In regards to your final post, I appreciate what you are trying to say. Razaar, believe me, I know that the majority of golf is in the brain. I am not "blaming" equipment with this thread. I am trying to work out why I can hit my hybrid as far into the wind as my driver. I don't think that is all in my head.

[virge666]

I'm still shocked you don't think shafts affect dispersion (excepting a 3 flex or 25 gram error)

It is a wives tale. Just like the old too stiff goes right and too soft goes left. Tis a crock of shite. All the shaft is going to do if amplify or minimise your own faults. It is NOT going to create faults.

You can go onto any forum you like and it will be full of people saying that if a shaft is too stiff it goes left, then go to another and they will say it goes right. (The reasons why are sensational too).... All it is doing is amplifying your own mishit.

If it is too soft or light - you will balloon it (too much spin), if it is too stiff or heavy - the ball will not get "on plane" and it will fall out fo the sky. (not enough spin)

To agree with you - there will be slight changes in Angle of Attack and clubface angle - but SFA compared to your swing faults.

So - the smart money will find a head that covers up their mishits with club design, then you can tune the results with the shaft to get your spin rates, trajectory apex and rate of descent where you want them.

Dont get me wrong - the shaft is important, I am all for decent shafts and keeping my spin rate down'ish. But if you have the wrong head - you are just pushing shit uphill.

[virge666]

Hey Adlo,

Go and grab a driver with one more degree on it, with a shaft with 10-15 more grams of weight on it. Stay in Regular.

Just grab a demo of one and see how you go. The downwind answer you gave is quite revealing.

[adlo]

Virge, how on earth do I discover the best head design for my swing? I have hit a fair few drivers.....

Edit: just read your last post, thanks Virge, will do.

[adlo]

I have a HMOI 70R coming through from 2putt for peanuts (so there is the extra 10g if it works).

I'll try and find something to demo in that range.

[TheNuclearOne]

Hey Adlo,

Go and grab a driver with one more degree on it, with a shaft with 10-15 more grams of weight on it. Stay in Regular.

Just grab a demo of one and see how you go. The downwind answer you gave is quite revealing.

He's launching the ball too high and putting too much backspin on it, struggling into the wind etc, so grab a head with one more degree of loft? :shock:

[TheNuclearOne]

.

[TheNuclearOne]

It is a wives tale. Just like the old too stiff goes right and too soft goes left. Tis a crock of shite. All the shaft is going to do if amplify or minimise your own faults. It is NOT going to create faults.

You can go onto any forum you like and it will be full of people saying that if a shaft is too stiff it goes left, then go to another and they will say it goes right. (The reasons why are sensational too).... All it is doing is amplifying your own mishit.

If it is too soft or light - you will balloon it (too much spin), if it is too stiff or heavy - the ball will not get "on plane" and it will fall out fo the sky. (not enough spin)

To agree with you - there will be slight changes in Angle of Attack and clubface angle - but SFA compared to your swing faults.

So - the smart money will find a head that covers up their mishits with club design, then you can tune the results with the shaft to get your spin rates, trajectory apex and rate of descent where you want them.

Dont get me wrong - the shaft is important, I am all for decent shafts and keeping my spin rate down'ish. But if you have the wrong head - you are just pushing shit uphill.

Totally agree it all starts with the head, especially loft too but you downplay the shaft way too much IMO.

I'm not one to believe too soft = this or too stiff = that. Many people are opposite to the supposed norm anyway. But i still believe soft tipped shafts will cause direction errors in those needing very stiff tips etc.

[virge666]

Virge, how on earth do I discover the best head design for my swing? I have hit a fair few drivers.....


Piece of piss.

Get some impact stickers or some talcum powder. Attach or sprinkle onto your driver head. Hit balls - find out where your misses are.

Then find a head to match you impact pattern, or fix the impact pattern.

[virge666]

He's launching the ball too high and putting too much backspin on it, struggling into the wind etc, so grab a head with one more degree of loft? :shock:

We all struggle into the wind... always will. I believe he is struggling as he is not getting either enough penetration to keep the ball on plane through the air and is getting knocked down by it.

Also due to his size - 6'5 and 100kg, with a slow transition - I would like to see more weight and grunt through the ball to help with the tempo. 10gr of weight in the shaft will kill more spin than an extra degree on the club head.

I agree the CB shaft may not be a good option, and I would expect a stiffer tip to be more consistant. But I would have to see him through impact to be sure.

[adlo]

Virge, I could try and get a video of the swing if that would help.

My miss is DEFINITELY towards the heel.

Looking at the specs on the JavlnFX shafts, they appear to be a bit more tip stiff. Feels great in my hybrids.... not so good in the Mizzie driver.

[Yossarian]

DSgfaRgn5YU

:mrgreen:

[adlo]

I'd kill for a swing like that.

[virge666]

Virge, I could try and get a video of the swing if that would help.

My miss is DEFINITELY towards the heel.

Looking at the specs on the JavlnFX shafts, they appear to be a bit more tip stiff. Feels great in my hybrids.... not so good in the Mizzie driver.

Please do.

Titty heads are good for heel misses. So are r7 tp and smaller cleveland heads.

Go for a v2 shaft - way cheaper than a Jav model

[adlo]

Cool, should be able to get some video tomorrow (quality will be average though).

I used to like my original Hibore, that was about 410cc. Felt SO harsh though, I had to switch. The Javln V6 shaft was about $100, not too bad I thought.

Tomorrow I will compare:

TM TB HMOI 60R
MX700 JavlnFX V6 R
MX500 UST 70R tipped (from simmsy)
Hibore XLS 11.5 Fit On Red stiff (simmsy)
Adams A3 10.5 VS Proto (Yoss)

See how it goes.

[Yossarian]

Do you want my adams as well?

[adlo]

I already know I hit the Adams about 15m past my TM :roll:

What weight is the Proto?

What you doing tomorrow afternoon?

[Yossarian]

70 g's baby. Tomorrow arvo, maybe work, but probably not. Simmsy was going to drop my putter off. What range you thinking?

[simmsy]

if you guys are hooking up somewhere i will bring the gear there save me a bit of travel.
give me a time and place as i will be finished work by about midday.

[Yossarian]

I don't know about hooking up, I mean adlo is married and I have a girlfriend. But what happens at the driving range stays at the driving range.

[adlo]

Yeah, wouldn't mind hitting it then. Added to the list.

Not sure, prefer somewhere I can use real tees. Maylands maybe, depends on Collier. Have they been using grass or mats lately?

simmsy: you can drop Yoss putter to me if you like.

[Yossarian]

Mats. But we could probably sneak onto the grass.
Murdoch pines you can hit off grass but it is average grass.
Everywhere else is mats atm.

[rebjon]

I will lend you the 907D2

[adlo]

I don't think Maylands have mats..... so that might be the go.

Rebjon, cheers, but something inside me will never let me own a Titty driver, so I will pass.

[Yossarian]

I don't think Maylands have mats..... so that might be the go.

Rebjon, cheers, but something inside me will never let me own a Titty driver, so I will pass.


Brand snob. What time mate, anytime after two I can do. And the light will be right to make me look good on camera.

[adlo]

:lol:

Probably 3-3:30 Yoss.

[Yossarian]

Alright, i'll give you a msg tmz.

[rebjon]

Not own just test the heal...

[rebjon]

Mind me coming down...?

Need to do some testing of my own....

[Yossarian]

I don't mind but aldo doesn't like the way you melt the ball.

[simmsy]

adlo i'll look to drop off the drivers to you before that as i have to be elsewhere that time of arvo. will drop of putter and some money for the Yosshead as well.

[Yossarian]

Haha simmsy do you pay in cash for the same reason you get crubs delivered to JC's office? ;)

[adlo]

No probs simmsy.

Rebjon, the more the merrier. We can all
http://www.swellpets.co.uk/img/shop/original/moult%20master.jpg
some drives and do some testing.

[rebjon]

http://www.nailandhammer.net/Images/nailhammerlogo.jpg

[Yossarian]

http://i26.tinypic.com/30crv3l.jpg

Flushed that!

I might take some video of myself as well. So hot right now.

[adlo]

Be the club
http://s3.images.com/huge.99.499734.JPG

[Yossarian]

Do you think he wears this?

http://i32.tinypic.com/t0jos3.jpg

[adlo]

OK gents, enough of the funny business. But yes, I do think he wears that badge. Off to do some testing tomorrow.

[virge666]

The 907 is not a good test... shit driver on the forgiveness side.

906R or 909 D2

[adlo]

Neither of those available Virge. I'll give the Titty driver a miss me thinks.

[adlo]

Virge, what are your thoughts on Cally drivers?

[virge666]

Virge, what are your thoughts on Cally drivers?

Hate them - that why I have a driver and 3 wood.

[adlo]

:lol: I know you Cally ho.

But is the hyberbolic face the real deal? Quite a few people rave about it for forgiveness.

[Johnny Canuck]

want to try an r7 tp 10.5 w/ pro launch blue stiff?

[TheNuclearOne]

We all struggle into the wind... always will. I believe he is struggling as he is not getting either enough penetration to keep the ball on plane through the air and is getting knocked down by it.

Also due to his size - 6'5 and 100kg, with a slow transition - I would like to see more weight and grunt through the ball to help with the tempo. 10gr of weight in the shaft will kill more spin than an extra degree on the club head.

I agree the CB shaft may not be a good option, and I would expect a stiffer tip to be more consistant. But I would have to see him through impact to be sure.

There's a difference between struggling into the wind and plain being ill fit. Why i asked the downwind question was to look for his exact answer. Having suprising success downwind and ballooning badly into it is the old telltale sign of too much spin. You''ll see many experts advocating a 3 wood off the tee in strong downwinds - of course it flies higher with more backspin and gets a better ride than the driver might.

A well fitted driver minimises the difference between downwind and into, tho obviously there will still be plenty. Spinrate is the key into the wind, possibly even more so than launch.

Getting rid of the counter balanced shafts will also give him more weight and grunt thru impact. I agree some weight will help too obviously. If he's still spinning it too high tho he'll struggle, oomph of no oomph. It's the laws of physics.

A degree of loft will add about 300rpms, another 10 grams of shaft weight will be greatly offset by this considering he's going to the same profile. 300rpm is substancial. Why negate a beneficial change. Going down would be better or simply killing some spin with a decent shaft match or both.

[simmsy]

want to try an r7 tp 10.5 w/ pro launch blue stiff?


i would like to give that a go JC;)

adlo - what cally driver you looking?

[Johnny Canuck]

no worries

[razaar]

There's a difference between struggling into the wind and plain being ill fit. Why i asked the downwind question was to look for his exact answer. Having suprising success downwind and ballooning badly into it is the old telltale sign of too much spin. You''ll see many experts advocating a 3 wood off the tee in strong downwinds - of course it flies higher with more backspin and gets a better ride than the driver might.

A well fitted driver minimises the difference between downwind and into, tho obviously there will still be plenty. Spinrate is the key into the wind, possibly even more so than launch.

Getting rid of the counter balanced shafts will also give him more weight and grunt thru impact. I agree some weight will help too obviously. If he's still spinning it too high tho he'll struggle, oomph of no oomph. It's the laws of physics.

A degree of loft will add about 300rpms, another 10 grams of shaft weight will be greatly offset by this considering he's going to the same profile. 300rpm is substancial. Why negate a beneficial change. Going down would be better or simply killing some spin with a decent shaft match or both.
To me its all about the contact of the ball on the clubface. The longer the ball stays on the face (only a fraction of a second) the better the shot will be, into the wind or otherwise. Anything else is a glancing blow. We want clinging contact - its the toolee not the tool that achieves that.

[TheNuclearOne]

To me its all about the contact of the ball on the clubface. The longer the ball stays on the face (only a fraction of a second) the better the shot will be, into the wind or otherwise. Anything else is a glancing blow. We want clinging contact - its the toolee not the tool that achieves that.

That's one part of it Raz, and the other is fitting. A center hit at 3500rpm and 16* is still just that. Otherwise we all may as well use the same tool.

Angle of attack and center contact (if that's what you meant) will always be important for sure, you don't want a big negative figure with the driver. Far from the only story tho.

How's Betty going?

[Spider Lover]

Re the clubhead vs shaft debate, if we are looking at materials only and not the golfer, I would have thought that provided the clubhead is of normal quality it has very, very little to nil effect on 'straight' ball flight. The clubface has to be brought square to the ball at impact.

If a golfer with a fast swing speed is using a regular flex or less shaft there is less chance of the clubface returning to where it should be at impact due to the flex in the shaft.

In my opinion the shaft has a hell of a lot more to do with dispersing shots that a clubface.

[virge666]

Having surprising success downwind and ballooning badly into it is the old telltale sign of too much spin. You''ll see many experts advocating a 3 wood off the tee in strong down winds - of course it flies higher with more backspin and gets a better ride than the driver might.



Have I missed the part where he says it is ballooning into the wind ? I see struggling into the wind - but no mention of ballooning.

Cause if he is ballooning it. and by Ballooning I mean starting low and CLIMBING into the wind, then I am all with you - need less spin.

[3oneday]

I find I hit an 8.5 degree driver straighter than a 10.5.

[BrisVegas]

I find I hit an 8.5 degree driver straighter than a 10.5.

you're as odd as me then.:lol:

[Captain Nemo]

Me too!

[adlo]

That's one part of it Raz, and the other is fitting. A center hit at 3500rpm and 16* is still just that. Otherwise we all may as well use the same tool.

Angle of attack and center contact (if that's what you meant) will always be important for sure, you don't want a big negative figure with the driver. Far from the only story tho.


The initial numbers from the LM on my TM TB had launch about perfect for my SS, which averaged out around 94-95mph.

I don't think I am swinging harder, but it is definitely launching higher these days. Maybe something with the swing.


Have I missed the part where he says it is ballooning into the wind ? I see struggling into the wind - but no mention of ballooning.

Cause if he is ballooning it. and by Ballooning I mean starting low and CLIMBING into the wind, then I am all with you - need less spin.

Virge, the ballooning isn't always happening into the wind, but it did happen twice on Saturday. Went nowhere too.

[virge666]

Virge, the ballooning isn't always happening into the wind, but it did happen twice on Saturday. Went nowhere too.

Call me old fashioned - but I find it hard to belive your are truely balooning your shots with a swing speed of 93-94mph.

You just don't have enough clubhead speed.

[adlo]

Interesting.

It happens though.

[virge666]

Interesting.

It happens though.

What ball you using . . . ?

[Chris32]

Interesting thread!

Virge, what are your opinions, I have a original FT-i with the Speeder 586 in stiff. I swing around 100-110 ( 6 iron I hit 160m) I like the driver as its very straight, but I can hit my 3 wood ( The Cally X Tour I got off you) just as far.

Is that the shaft? Ball flight with the driver is high, I dunno if I would call it ballooning flight though. Its like the ball is really doing everything it can to hang in the air, and rolls maybe 5-10m

Would a heavier shaft be the go?

[Johnny Canuck]

From what I have seen playing with Aldo, he doesn't hit an overly high ball at all and I have never seen him balloon a drive.

Hey Aldo,

I'll get shoes. Tell me when you are ready to order.

[adlo]

What ball you using . . . ?
Um, on Satdee I hit a TM LDP Red that ballooned and went like 180m. On #17 I hit a Z star that ballooned but went closer to 195-200m.

I would say I am trying to swing harder than 95mph lately. I hit similar distance with irons to rebjon and Yossarian, and they would safely be closer to 100mph. With a well fit driver, I keep up with them off the tee. With the Burner, I am at least 10m shorter.

From what I have seen playing with Aldo, he doesn't hit an overly high ball at all and I have never seen him balloon a drive.

Hey Aldo,

I'll get shoes. Tell me when you are ready to order.
Yeah, I didn't balloon at KB. Don't know what has changed of late.

Order will be placed in next few days. PM me your shoe of choice. I am very happy with the shoes I will be getting.

[Johnny Canuck]

any chance you can work quick?

the ones i wanted last night are now out of stock. 3 pairs down.

i have one model left.

what shoes are you getting?


BTW, Tiger has the same Burner driver that you have and he is strangely short with it as well, compared to what he hit with other drivers. I think his problem would be sorted with a reshaft, but he hits it straight, so he isn't going to mess with it.

[virge666]

Um, on Satdee I hit a TM LDP Red that ballooned and went like 180m. On #17 I hit a Z star that ballooned but went closer to 195-200m.


Got me ****ed... no idea how you can balloon an LDP ball with a sub 140mph ball speed. You would have to be into a 20knot wind.

Try a Pro V1x (has to be an x ball) see what happens then.

[Yossarian]

Its ok virge, I am heading to the range now with aldo, I show him how to swing like a man ;)

[adlo]

An ultra fast transition is manly is it Yossarian??

Virge, lets drop the ballooning speak for now then. My understanding of ballooning is starting low and picking up (almost like when pro's used to hit the old clubs and balls) to an apex and more or less dropping dead.

[Yossarian]

Ah I didn't think you read that till after...

[TheNuclearOne]

Have I missed the part where he says it is ballooning into the wind ? I see struggling into the wind - but no mention of ballooning.

Cause if he is ballooning it. and by Ballooning I mean starting low and CLIMBING into the wind, then I am all with you - need less spin.

Just reading between the lines using all the other info and hints.

[TheNuclearOne]

An ultra fast transition is manly is it Yossarian??

Virge, lets drop the ballooning speak for now then. My understanding of ballooning is starting low and picking up (almost like when pro's used to hit the old clubs and balls) to an apex and more or less dropping dead.

That's ballooning alright.

adlo, did you have the exact same setup when on the launch monitor?

[adlo]

No, that was with the stock REAX shaft.

After the reshaft I was hitting similar trajectory but much more consistent and longer.

Have struggled with the set up for some time now, hence the experimenting with another driver set up.

[Jarro]

So what was the stock shaft Adlo ?

And what did you change it to ?

[simmsy]

Um, on Satdee I hit a TM LDP Red that ballooned and went like 180m. On #17 I hit a Z star that ballooned but went closer to 195-200m.

I would say I am trying to swing harder than 95mph lately. With the Burner, I am at least 10m shorter.





aaahhhh you're after that elusive 10mtrs aren't you?;)


hit the 500 you'll find it there my friend.

[adlo]

Jarro, stock was TM REAX, swapped for HMOI.

simmsy, ha ha, that is a good one.

[simmsy]

we should chip in for an Adams BUL driver put a v2hmoi REG shaft into and see how it goes.

[goonie]

Is the ball rising into the wind? or is it just high and dropping short? I find it hard to believe you are getting more spin with the HMOI shaft than the stock one, is it possible that for your SS you are not getting enough spin to keep the ball in the air?

You need to get back on a LM.

[adlo]

goonie, it rises into the wind.

The problem with the HMOI seems to be a problem only recently.

The main reason I am asking questions is because the MX700/javlnFX combo is easily longer with my same gumby swing, just less consistent for me.

[TheNuclearOne]

Are you hitting your irons longer now or have you picked up power?

[goonie]

Get on a LM with both clubs, make sure you put some tape on the face so you can tell which ones are worth recording, and don't just start blasting away because that won't be a true indication of yout normal swing, use your normal setup routine etc.

Do you lose the MX700 in the same direction?, it should be pretty high MOI so maybe your not getting enough spin? What length shafts have you got?

[adlo]

Um, on a well struck iron, I have been getting 5m more distance.

Both clubs 45".

The MX700 can fade (power fade into the wind) but also I pull it dead left sometimes which is weird for me.

I feel like I need to swing the MX700 harder as the shaft is noticeably stiffer in the tip.

OK, off to the range now to hit a few drivers.

[simmsy]

sounds more like a flaw in the swing.
i know jack'all about swings but that's a fault i had earlier this year and it was my body coming through too quick when trying to hit the hell out of it.

don't take it as gospel but just a thought.

[Jarro]

sounds more like a flaw in the swing.


Bingo !!!

[Pieface]

Um, on a well struck iron, I have been getting 5m more distance.

Both clubs 45".

The MX700 can fade (power fade into the wind) but also I pull it dead left sometimes which is weird for me.

I feel like I need to swing the MX700 harder as the shaft is noticeably stiffer in the tip.

OK, off to the range now to hit a few drivers.

Sounds like you're coming over the top of it a bit to me?

[adlo]

Bloody hell you guys are helpful!

I am playing off 15, my swing is bound to have flaws. The purpose of this thread was to ask questions about the difference in performance between two drivers.

Anyway, spent a few hours down the range with rebjon, Yossarian, Golfnut and some drivers.

The best drivers were the Adams A3 10.5 with VS Proto 70R at 44.5" and the MX700 JavlnFX V6.

The worst was hands down the MX500 with Harmon Tour Design 70 at 44.5" (tipped 1/2").

The Tour Burner was still a good 10-15m shorter than the other options for me.

I will upload a video of the driver swing. I don't like watching the video of myself, but anyway, I think it is a good example of my "normal" swing.

At the end of the session, Coach Rebjon got me swinging a lot more aggressively through impact and the results were great.

[Yossarian]

Man I hate the freeway, adlo you looked good tonight. Oh an virge when you read this come over to wa we could use you as a yoda type figure.

[adlo]

OK, here is my normal driver swing.
EMT-tiVir9s
There are things I should know I need to change in my swing, but I don't want to make this thread all about that.

Keen to here thoughts about this swing in relation to driver and shaft.

Virge I hit a few used ProV1x's.... off the 2 I middled I went quite high and the other one really flew well with very good distance.

[Courty]

Looks pretty decent to me.

[zacdullard]

Looks smooth 8)

[adlo]

Courty, cheers, but I would ideally like to get a better shoulder turn/coil and get more lag in the wrists. I have a feeling I am throwing away a fair bit of power.

[Courty]

I'm no swing doctor, and it's difficult to tell in that clip, but are you possible breaking the wrists a little early? I believe that could lead to a steeper descending angle of attack which could generate higher spin rates? Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

[adlo]

Yeah, tend to agree Courty. Like I said, rebjon had me swinging a lot more aggressively through impact after this video was taken, getting the hands coming through quicker to try and increase the lag. Initial results were very positive.

[Yossarian]

Rebjon made me swing like a man, before I was emasculated now I feel virile and potent. Like I could fight one thousand panthers and win.

8)

[Johnny Canuck]

that is the hardest i have ever seen you swing. looked good, almost, manly.

[mike]

You need to pronate your elbow.

[razaar]

OK, here is my normal driver swing.
EMT-tiVir9s
There are things I should know I need to change in my swing, but I don't want to make this thread all about that.

Keen to here thoughts about this swing in relation to driver and shaft.

Virge I hit a few used ProV1x's.... off the 2 I middled I went quite high and the other one really flew well with very good distance.
Need to stay behind the ball Adam...look at your head just past impact. Probably why your contact is inconsistant.

[adlo]

So keep the head down more as the right side swings through?

[razaar]

Left side of the face to the right of the ball position and at the same height as at address and look at where the tee is/was until your right shoulder turns your head towards the target. Otherwise you are in danger of changing your swing plane.
PS been in a seminar all day & was trying to do 2 things at once.

[TheNuclearOne]

Bloody hell you guys are helpful!

I am playing off 15, my swing is bound to have flaws. The purpose of this thread was to ask questions about the difference in performance between two drivers.

Anyway, spent a few hours down the range with rebjon, Yossarian, Golfnut and some drivers.

The best drivers were the Adams A3 10.5 with VS Proto 70R at 44.5" and the MX700 JavlnFX V6.

The worst was hands down the MX500 with Harmon Tour Design 70 at 44.5" (tipped 1/2").

The Tour Burner was still a good 10-15m shorter than the other options for me.

I will upload a video of the driver swing. I don't like watching the video of myself, but anyway, I think it is a good example of my "normal" swing.

At the end of the session, Coach Rebjon got me swinging a lot more aggressively through impact and the results were great.

Good stuff mate, sounds like you got looked after. Incidentally a lot of the Harmon Tour Designs are CBalanced as well.

[adlo]

Yeah, the Harmon combo was a real shocker for me.

Will stick with the Mizzie and start a different thread for some swing advice.

And thanks Ray, will work on that.

[Yossarian]

Did I say stay down? If that is what raz is saying.:)

[simmsy]

how dare you trash talk the 500 my fwend!

no love there then mate.

looks as though you've got a few things sorted though mate, so a worthwhile arvo.

when you buying an A3?

[adlo]

Must have been the shaft, the 500 is a lovely club.

No A3 for me, was hitting the 700 just as good.

[razaar]

Did I say stay down? If that is what raz is saying.:)
Coming out of the shot too early and not staying behind the ball. Everything has gone too early...if the ball was Mrs Adlo it would be complaining.:)

[virge666]

Coming out of the shot too early and not staying behind the ball. Everything has gone too early...if the ball was Mrs Adlo it would be complaining.:)

+1 and 2

Right side has collapsed and left leg is straight. Pretty much standard hi flip draw.

Get your right hip higher through impact.

[adlo]

+1 and 2

Right side has collapsed and left leg is straight. Pretty much standard hi flip draw.

Get your right hip higher through impact.

How?

[adlo]

Virge, are you able to expand on that comment?

[Jarro]

Adlo, i think you need to stay down longer and really try and drive through the ball more.

For a big bopper, you swing like a poofter !!! :)

Hit the ****ing thing !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Pieface]

Adlo, i think you need to stay down longer and really try and drive through the ball more.

For a big bopper, you swing like a poofter !!! :)

Hit the ****ing thing !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Note to self...don't post Pieguy swing here :oops: It comes with bigger and poofier I fear :lol:

[adlo]

Jarro, you should be a swing coach! You seem to excel in the areas of: encouragement, diligence and being a short arse.

I think I will wait for Virge to explain what he is saying.

I can try and hit the ball harder, but it has absolutely no effect on how far I hit it.

[Jarro]

Jarro, you should be a swing coach! You seem to excel in the areas of: encouragement, diligence and being a short arse.

I think I will wait for Virge to explain what he is saying.

I can try and hit the ball harder, but it has absolutely no effect on how far I hit it.

yeah goodo :roll:

I'll show you what i mean when i come over there early next year :mrgreen:

[adlo]

I've seen your swing Flipper. You coming over though? Good stuff.

[Jarro]

I've seen your swing Flipper. You coming over though? Good stuff.

Yeah a mate at work is getting a transfer to Perth.

I'll be coming over to visit after he settles in ;)

I'll bring my earplugs shall i ? :)

[adlo]

You mean so you can't hear Johnny Canuck and Yossarian rabbiting on?

Makes sense.

[Jarro]

Yeah i heard JC could talk the ears off a statue :roll:

[virge666]

Virge, are you able to expand on that comment?

'Course.

on your downswing your hips are going UNDER your shoulder instead of staying level and ROTATING AROUND. Your posture changes about 4 times on you backswing and down to impact.

Repeat to yourself on a backswing - ARMS, SHOULDERS, HIPS
Then for a downswing HIPS, SHOULDERS, ARMS.

Do this whilest keeping your spine angle and posture. You need to swing around your spine, not move your upper body around to suit what your legs are doing.

Just rotate around your spine.... nothing more

[Johnny Canuck]

settle down now. i am an innocent bystander in all of this, although i do like jarro's advice.

as for you aldo, who is the only one that got reprimanded on the golf course for loud behaviour?

[Jarro]

'Course.

on your downswing your hips are going UNDER your shoulder instead of staying level and ROTATING AROUND. Your posture changes about 4 times on you backswing and down to impact.

Repeat to yourself on a backswing - ARMS, SHOULDERS, HIPS
Then for a downswing HIPS, SHOULDERS, ARMS.

Do this whilest keeping your spine angle and posture. You need to swing around your spine, not move your upper body around to suit what your legs are doing.

Just rotate around your spine.... nothing more

Won't this make him hit big blocks/cuts ?

Shouldn't the arms start the downswing ?

[adlo]

Gents, have moved this to a seperate thread.

[3oneday]

Hit it then find it. Fairways are over-rated.

[virge666]

Won't this make him hit big blocks/cuts ?

Shouldn't the arms start the downswing ?

The hips "load" the arms and allow for more downcocking of the wrists. In Edwin we call it a bump, in a more conventional swing it it may start with the knees and hips clearing.

Same method to both swing patterns. The hips have to get out of the way for the shoulders to come down on plane.

he will hit the high rights if he hangs back. Pretty much what he is doing now. He however flips his hands over and drives the legs to straighten himself up.

What he is doing now is TILTING instead of rotating. Slow it down and look at his posture - it is almost Zig like.

[virge666]

Hit it then find it. Fairways are over-rated.


How is the left hand side rough nowadays ?

[3oneday]

Eeewwww, you've actually seen zig ????

[3oneday]

How is the left hand side rough nowadays ?

dunno, when was the last time we played ???

[daMANiack]

Hi,

Too much right or left dispersion from centre target line maybe coming if the shaft is too higher spinning, or torque/twisting too much.


I've been stocking the Grafalloy EPIC shafts for sometime and my customers love the:

High Launch
Low Right/Left Dispersion from target line
Low spin rate
Stability even when trying to power
Metal outer sleeve
Whatever.

Cheerz ) :D ;)

[henno]

Spam.

[Jarro]

adlo, get yourself a nice Aldila NV 65 X flex shaft.

You'll never hit more fairways :)

[razaar]

The hips "load" the arms and allow for more downcocking of the wrists. In Edwin we call it a bump, in a more conventional swing it it may start with the knees and hips clearing.

Same method to both swing patterns. The hips have to get out of the way for the shoulders to come down on plane.

he will hit the high rights if he hangs back. Pretty much what he is doing now. He however flips his hands over and drives the legs to straighten himself up.

What he is doing now is TILTING instead of rotating. Slow it down and look at his posture - it is almost Zig like.
To expand on Virge's words and make it clearer for those having trouble understanding the golf swing this may help.

We set up at address with our feet planted firmly on the earth. If this isn't done we have no foundation and purchase to generate the power necessary to make the ball fly. Try hitting a golf ball standing on ice. In an uncomplicated swing the arms and shoulders move first as a unit turning the trunk which turns the hips, and in the majority of golfers, the left knee. The feet maintain their solid contact with the ground because they are needed to kick the swing in reverse. It is the large muscles of the thighs and around the pelvic area which reverse the swing.

All the stuff you have read about winding the body up like a spring, well forget it, our muscles don't work like that. Muscles come in opposite groups, one group contracts the other stretches; when stretched they stay stretched until their antagonist is engaged. The role of the muscles is to move the bones (levers) to perform the task set by the brain. That is a simplistic view but it will do here. The larger muscles move the slowest and are the source of power, the smaller muscles work faster and are very limited to create power on their own.

In the backswing, the swing has moved in sequence with the upper body leading the pivot. The downswing reverses that from the feet upwards with the main power source being the large muscles of the legs, thighs & pelvic area. It is important that the upper body remained turned at this point otherwise the whole point of having a backswing is down the drain.
The large lower body muscles will at some point engage the trunk (inner & outer obliques) which will then carry the load at a faster pace reacting the shoulders which move at an even faster pace. Each group moves in sequence picking up the load as the previous group expends its power range.

The above is referred to as sequencing in golf swing terms.

[henno]

Great post, Ray.

[adlo]

Great post Ray.

Jarro, have never had any luck with the NV.

[Jarro]

Great post Ray.

Jarro, have never had any luck with the NV.

Is that because of your homosexuality ?

[adlo]

Man, you are desperately trying to keep that thing going. Good luck little fella

[Jarro]

I can let it go.... if you really want me to ?

Try the NV's again man, they rock !!!!!

[adlo]

:lol:

OK, just for you I will hit the next club I see with an NV in it.

[Jarro]

You're a good man Adam

[Yossarian]

You're a big girl adam like that south african runner

:smt038

[adlo]

Yossarian, don't get in the way of Jarro and me patching up our damaged friendship

[Jarro]

damaged friendship :-s :?

What the hell went wrong ?!?

[adlo]

Lets just forget all the hurtful things that have happened and move on. I refuse to live in the past Jarro

[Yossarian]

you don't hold me like you used to adam

Wow guys keep it to pm's hey.

[Jarro]

Wow guys keep it to pm's hey.

I'm sensing a bit of jealousy here =;

[adlo]

:lol:

[Yossarian]

You mean how adlo is jealous of my car? And length off the tee?

[virge666]

The above is referred to as sequencing in golf swing terms.


Nice one mate - Spot on.