Questions about driver dispersion

[adlo]

OK, I have been experimenting between 2 drivers, and it has raised some questions.

On one hand I have my 10.5 TM TB with HMOI 60R, playing at 45" and SW somewhere around D1. I hit fairways with this driver. It feels super stable, but the distance dispersion is driving me mad. Today I hit 2 drives on the screws (without swinging harder-my normal lazy swing) and they both went around 240m (on a flat hole, not downwind etc- probably 225 carry or so). A few other slight off centre hits were travelling around 210-220m with roll. A few balls out more towards the heel were lucky to travel 180m. This combo launches quite high and seems to be putting a lot of back spin on the ball. Also, the slower my tempo the better the results. I really struggle with this driver into the wind at the moment.

Edit: I am not someone who thinks I can drive the ball 240m all the time. I would say more like 220m.

The other driver is question is the 10.5 Mizuno MX700 with Javln V6 R, playing at a smidge under 45" and SW D2.5. Out of the screws this driver will go a little bit further than my TM TB. However, whether hit slightly off centre or quite a bit off centre it seems to travel about 200-210m and flies quite low. I seem to having more problems controlling this driver, perhaps with less backspin it is spraying a bit more.

So, my questions are:

1) What distance variations do most people experience between centre and slight off centre hits with their drivers?

2) What would be a good way to reduce the spin on the TM TB HMOI? Would tipping it 1/2" or so help? Would a bit more swing weight help?

Any help would be appreciated. Cheers gents.

[goonie]

maybe you should swap the shafts, sounds like you need more spin in the Mizzy and less in the TM, what is the Javlins spin specs like?

[adlo]

The JavlnFX is mid kick, mid launch, torque is 4.2.

[Ferrins]

I'll let you know when I hit one in the centre

[Yossarian]

Your not really spraying the zuno, more just topping it?
Which is more of a confidence thing? Learn to be the club. Then the ball.

[adlo]

I'll let you know when I hit one in the centre

Awesome

Your not really spraying the zuno, more just topping it?
Which is more of a confidence thing? Learn to be the club. Then the ball.

Cheers Nuffie.

Yeah, the topped drive thing is mental. Anyway, haven't really been controlling the zuno as well as I would like.

[rebjon]

hmmmm Mizuno....hmmmmm

[adlo]

You absolutely


the MX700 the other day Rebjon. The shaft might suit you more than it suits me.

[razaar]

Mate, try putting some sticky labels on the face and try different tee heights and ball positions. Five balls with each and record the results. Remember with the driver it is important to hit past yourself and not to move onto the ball position.

[virge666]

Mate, try putting some sticky labels on the face and try different tee heights and ball positions. Five balls with each and record the results. Remember with the driver it is important to hit past yourself and not to move onto the ball position.

That is easily the best suggestion here,

Hit the middle more often - the ball will go further. Changing the shaft won't do diddly squat.

Your swing has to suit the head design. I you mis hits don't suit the club head - then you have the wrong clubhead.

For example - toe hits don't suit Titleist heads - heel hits don't suit the Pings.

[TheNuclearOne]

That is easily the best suggestion here,

Hit the middle more often - the ball will go further. Changing the shaft won't do diddly squat.

Your swing has to suit the head design. I you mis hits don't suit the club head - then you have the wrong clubhead.

For example - toe hits don't suit Titleist heads - heel hits don't suit the Pings.

I'd be wary of downplaying the role of the shaft tho. It does all start with the clubhead, but if you've got the wrong shaft nothing is going to help.

Playing the wrong shaft can actually, in many cases, cause the very mishits you speak of without even getting into spin rates and launch.

[Johnny Canuck]

IN ALL HONESTY:

You are 6'5", 100kg.

You should not be using a reg shaft.

Swing like you can, controlled, and hit it 250+ with, more than likely, the exact same shot dispersion.

I am not having a go. I am being 100% serious.

[virge666]

I'd be wary of downplaying the role of the shaft tho. It does all start with the clubhead, but if you've got the wrong shaft nothing is going to help.

Playing the wrong shaft can actually, in many cases, cause the very mishits you speak of without even getting into spin rates and launch.

Bullshit.

Unless you are 25gr too heavy or 3 flexes off you are only going to hit it higher or lower. yeah - it will feel awful, but that is what the shaft is for. The shaft is just used to control the spin rate. It will NOT adjust your launch angle by anymore than a degree either way.

If you are losing 10-15% with a mishit - you have the wrong head or your mishit. But I and many others are happy to sell you an expensive shaft if it makes you or the mishit feel better.

[TheNuclearOne]

Bullshit.

Unless you are 25gr too heavy or 3 flexes off you are only going to hit it higher or lower. yeah - it will feel awful, but that is what the shaft is for. The shaft is just used to control the spin rate. It will NOT adjust your launch angle by anymore than a degree either way.

If you are losing 10-15% with a mishit - you have the wrong head or your mishit. But I and many others are happy to sell you an expensive shaft if it makes you or the mishit feel better.

It's not bullshit at all Virge. Just like the Titty shafts. Sometimes you shock me. To imply being a flex or two (not to mention profile!) off in a shaft will only affect trajectory and not dispersion/direction is just silly. Jesus. Being two flexes off and polar opposites on the profile scale will also sure as heck make more than a 1 degree launch diff too. You didn't even mention profile

Lets make a case example. Player X swings at 110mph and has a fast transition. Are you going to tell me he is only off in trajectory when using say an NVS-75s vs a 7Z08x? That NVS is going to fold like a stack of cards! Hook and balloon city here we come.

Recently there was a good case study of a 73yo golfer with a very average swing speed using reg flex irons. When put on the new age Fit Chip system it was found his load and force (because of quick transition) demanded a stiff flex. He gained 10 to 15 yards thru the irons and an astounding amount of accuracy. His scores dropped 5 odd shots basically overnight.

I'm still shocked you don't think shafts affect dispersion (excepting a 3 flex or 25 gram error)

[TheNuclearOne]

In an ideal world it's like this Adlo. You have to figure out your own needs shaft and head wise. This can be done via experimenting, LM's, luck etc.

Shaft wise you have to work out your preferred flex, profile and weight, and if we go silly serious SW and length of driver. It does indeed make a difference. Some guys will kill an 85 gram shaft at 44 inches yet not be able to hit the norm.

You say you're struggling into the wind. A well fit driver will cut thru the wind very well within reason. Many driver setups that struggle into the wind go surprisingly well downwind. Is this the case too?

The best cheapest way for you to get an idea might be to try various drivers from the pro shop. Try a stiff, try a reg, try an 8.5, try a 10.5 etc. Thru much frigging around i know i like heads that are low spin in about an 8.5* and slightly open face, and shafts of the Blueboard 73s ilk, about 70 grams, stiff, and reasonably stiff tip etc.

[razaar]

We were having a chat over a few drinks yesterday about how much easier the game has got with the new technology (clubs and balls) yet we don't seem to score any better. IMO blaming shafts etc. for poor results is just plain wrong and will only lead one into a psychosomatic state about equipment when the real problem is our own lack of ability, understanding and performance.

Here is a bit of technical stuff about us which is far more important than a flex or two difference.

Like all movements, golf is a series of repeated muscular contractions regulated by the nervous system and directed by motor learning pathways. Purposeful movement depends on ultimate communication among all the mechanisms that regulate muscle length and tension.

The control nervous system processes information provided through five basic sensory analyzers.
Proprioceptive or body awareness
Tactile or sense of touch
Vestibular or balance and equilibrium
Optic or visual
Acoustic or auditory

Nothing new in this but sometimes we tend to forget that we are the ones that make things happen and golf is a constant series of adjustments.

[adlo]

OK, thanks for the advice thus far.

Virge, I am not trying to justify buying some exotic shaft. Merely trying to understand whether or not the shaft is having a part to play in my situation described in the first post. Perhaps the head does not suit me. I appreciate your thoughts and will try and hit a few more head designs.

TNO, yes, my TMTB goes very well downwind... even if the tailwind is only slight. I have hit a lot of drivers over the years, and quite a few shafts. I have based my bag on the results from working out what I liked. I have found I like something with a soft tip that suits a smooth transition. However, the shafts in my driver and 3 wood appear to be giving me some grief at the same time, so perhaps my swing has changed slightly. The shafts in my other clubs are going a bit better.

Johnny Canuck, I know what you are saying. I used to hit clubs with stiff shafts. The results were no better. I found I started to play better golf when I relaxed and didn't feel like I needed to belt the ball. Most aftermarket reg's can take a much higher swingspeed than the flex charts suggest.

Razaar, I think you suggestion about the experimenting with ball position etc is a very good one and I will do that. In regards to your final post, I appreciate what you are trying to say. Razaar, believe me, I know that the majority of golf is in the brain. I am not "blaming" equipment with this thread. I am trying to work out why I can hit my hybrid as far into the wind as my driver. I don't think that is all in my head.

[virge666]

I'm still shocked you don't think shafts affect dispersion (excepting a 3 flex or 25 gram error)

It is a wives tale. Just like the old too stiff goes right and too soft goes left. Tis a crock of shite. All the shaft is going to do if amplify or minimise your own faults. It is NOT going to create faults.

You can go onto any forum you like and it will be full of people saying that if a shaft is too stiff it goes left, then go to another and they will say it goes right. (The reasons why are sensational too).... All it is doing is amplifying your own mishit.

If it is too soft or light - you will balloon it (too much spin), if it is too stiff or heavy - the ball will not get "on plane" and it will fall out fo the sky. (not enough spin)

To agree with you - there will be slight changes in Angle of Attack and clubface angle - but SFA compared to your swing faults.

So - the smart money will find a head that covers up their mishits with club design, then you can tune the results with the shaft to get your spin rates, trajectory apex and rate of descent where you want them.

Dont get me wrong - the shaft is important, I am all for decent shafts and keeping my spin rate down'ish. But if you have the wrong head - you are just pushing shit uphill.

[virge666]

Hey Adlo,

Go and grab a driver with one more degree on it, with a shaft with 10-15 more grams of weight on it. Stay in Regular.

Just grab a demo of one and see how you go. The downwind answer you gave is quite revealing.

[adlo]

Virge, how on earth do I discover the best head design for my swing? I have hit a fair few drivers.....

Edit: just read your last post, thanks Virge, will do.

[adlo]

I have a HMOI 70R coming through from 2putt for peanuts (so there is the extra 10g if it works).

I'll try and find something to demo in that range.

[TheNuclearOne]

Hey Adlo,

Go and grab a driver with one more degree on it, with a shaft with 10-15 more grams of weight on it. Stay in Regular.

Just grab a demo of one and see how you go. The downwind answer you gave is quite revealing.

He's launching the ball too high and putting too much backspin on it, struggling into the wind etc, so grab a head with one more degree of loft?

[TheNuclearOne]

.

[TheNuclearOne]

It is a wives tale. Just like the old too stiff goes right and too soft goes left. Tis a crock of shite. All the shaft is going to do if amplify or minimise your own faults. It is NOT going to create faults.

You can go onto any forum you like and it will be full of people saying that if a shaft is too stiff it goes left, then go to another and they will say it goes right. (The reasons why are sensational too).... All it is doing is amplifying your own mishit.

If it is too soft or light - you will balloon it (too much spin), if it is too stiff or heavy - the ball will not get "on plane" and it will fall out fo the sky. (not enough spin)

To agree with you - there will be slight changes in Angle of Attack and clubface angle - but SFA compared to your swing faults.

So - the smart money will find a head that covers up their mishits with club design, then you can tune the results with the shaft to get your spin rates, trajectory apex and rate of descent where you want them.

Dont get me wrong - the shaft is important, I am all for decent shafts and keeping my spin rate down'ish. But if you have the wrong head - you are just pushing shit uphill.

Totally agree it all starts with the head, especially loft too but you downplay the shaft way too much IMO.

I'm not one to believe too soft = this or too stiff = that. Many people are opposite to the supposed norm anyway. But i still believe soft tipped shafts will cause direction errors in those needing very stiff tips etc.

[virge666]

Virge, how on earth do I discover the best head design for my swing? I have hit a fair few drivers.....

Piece of piss.

Get some impact stickers or some talcum powder. Attach or sprinkle onto your driver head. Hit balls - find out where your misses are.

Then find a head to match you impact pattern, or fix the impact pattern.