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11th April 2019 04:56 PM
#51
Originally Posted by
Mike Clayton
Victoria put a little fescue into their roughs and it worked well. But as a rule the grasses we have in Australian roughs work pretty well. The lies are random, and it looks good. A massive generalisation though.
The good thing is we don't maintain rough like Americans often to in order to make it 'fair' 'consistent' and predictable and were the aim to to give every player the same lie Ugh
Hate American style rough, with a passion. I was thinking more of an overseeding to compliment what is already there. Having said that I must admit, also, to a fair dislike of Parramatta grass which is quite invasive & certainly very prevalent in Melbourne.
That was my thinking in the suggestion of fescue, but realise that the Parramatta grass would need to be eliminated first & that is no easy thing !!!
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11th April 2019 07:10 PM
#52
Senior Member
Touring Pro (European Tour)
Originally Posted by
sainters
Hate American style rough, with a passion. I was thinking more of an overseeding to compliment what is already there. Having said that I must admit, also, to a fair dislike of Parramatta grass which is quite invasive & certainly very prevalent in Melbourne.That was my thinking in the suggestion of fescue, but realise that the Parramatta grass would need to be eliminated first & that is no easy thing !!!
If your not a fan why would you want to have it here? Broad Oversowing rough is the first step toward it.
Driver- Slazenger Bruce Devlin 1 1/2
Fwy Wood - PGF Kel Nagle
Irons - 2-PW Keith Knox R700
Wedges - Wilson Jerry Pate
Putter - Bulls Eye Copy
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12th April 2019 11:55 AM
#53
Apologies, I may not have been specific enough, or have been misunderstood. American rough is, in general, not of the fescue variety. It is normally rye grass, which grows thick & lush, is very penal. With their narrow fairways, their offering is no playing options other than to "hit it straight". The type of rough I am referring to, & would like to see (as a generalisation), is more the wispy fescue type (yes, some fescues can provide very deep & long rough, so the choice of variety is important), combined with the more common grasses already in place. I was also not advocating a complete oversow, just enough to complement the existing. I would be looking to provide a cover which is quite difficult to hit from (these grasses tend to wrap around the hosel), but a ball can be easily found in it. What I am describing would be difficult to achieve, but something I believe could be aimed for.
Combine this type of rough feature with fairway width & options, provides for a much more interesting & a fun style of golf.
A lot of the inland English courses get it right. Most of the Surrey courses (minus the heather, which is really not native to Australia), & courses like Swinley Forest below, have been getting it right for donkey's years !!!
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12th April 2019 04:19 PM
#54
Senior Member
Touring Pro (European Tour)
nah not a fan of fescue roughs here, the native grasses in Oz are so much better - the sandy waste / native areas at Vic would be the best version of rough i have seen, frames the place beautifully, closely followed by the heath plantings at the Heath.
Driver- Slazenger Bruce Devlin 1 1/2
Fwy Wood - PGF Kel Nagle
Irons - 2-PW Keith Knox R700
Wedges - Wilson Jerry Pate
Putter - Bulls Eye Copy
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12th April 2019 05:16 PM
#55
Don't disagree with you entirely. I do have a suspicion that those types of rough (sandy waste areas), are difficult & expensive to maintain though.
I am also a fan of the look at Victoria.
Will respectfully disagree though & say I prefer the wispy grass look to the sandy waste. Possibly a combination of both would look OK ???
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12th April 2019 07:09 PM
#56
Senior Member
Touring Pro (European Tour)
Mike might chip in but the waste areas are actually pretty easy to maintain - I could never find the right fescue for rough as a monostand but love the “marsupial” natives kangaroo and wallaby grasses in the passive areas along with some sporadically placed bracken I would think would make a quintessential Aussie course.
Woodlands years ago was just parramatta and onion grass in the carry ways so much better now they have gone native not sure how indigenous they are but very appealling.
Are you involved in turf management? And I love the heathland pommie courses, Swinley is a course I have admired for many years as a model of simplicity.
Last edited by spanner039; 12th April 2019 at 07:13 PM.
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13th April 2019 09:00 AM
#57
Ex turfie. Haven’t been involved for over 20 years, hence my lack of confidence in discussing such matters.
I will also put my hand up to being a real Anglophile which goes a long way to explaining why I love that particular look !!! Even the way the UK approach the game really resonates with me. Would love to see (will never happen in my opinion) golf with no score cards & dogs on the courses etc.
I should be more open to using the Australian native grasses as you suggest, but my love of the look of the UK courses keeps pulling me in that direction.
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13th April 2019 09:25 AM
#58
Senior Member
Touring Pro (European Tour)
Originally Posted by
sainters
Ex turfie. Haven’t been involved for over 20 years, hence my lack of confidence in discussing such matters.I will also put my hand up to being a real Anglophile which goes a long way to explaining why I love that particular look !!! Even the way the UK approach the game really resonates with me. Would love to see (will never happen in my opinion) golf with no score cards & dogs on the courses etc. I should be more open to using the Australian native grasses as you suggest, but my love of the look of the UK courses keeps pulling me in that direction.
Have you played Healesville? Think you would like it. Would have been better if the RA stuck with fescue fairways.
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14th April 2019 04:24 PM
#59
Yes I have played Healesville. Enjoyed the course but wasn’t in the greatest of nic.
Have you played anywhere in the UK ??? Can’t be compared to here, or anywhere else.
I have been fortunate enough to play some fantastic courses over there, which can spoil your enjoyment of other courses. Having said that, I love our courses here in Victoria & no matter what is in the rough, we have no reason to complain.
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16th April 2019 08:35 AM
#60
Senior Member
Touring Pro (Japanese Tour)
Originally Posted by
Sydney Hacker
After leaving Melbourne to return to Sydney (North Shore), I miss and appreciate the set up of Melbourne courses so much more!
Metropolitan was an absolute delight to play twice last weekend. The course was fun, although not much fun playing 17 and 18 into the prevailing northerly, but still enjoyable. The staff were extremely accommodating and fantastic all around. The Royal Adelaide members I was with almost treat it like a second home
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18th October 2019 09:58 AM
#61
Victorious Confederate Captain
Order of Merit winner
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18th October 2019 09:17 PM
#62
Senior Member
Touring Pro (PGA)
Originally Posted by
WBennett
Mac has started up Clayton, Devries and Pont - @cdpgolf1, cdpgolf.com
Interesting to see what happens to OCCM, or if its done as an entity. Its website still exists.
Mac said on Insta today that OCM is still very much a thing.
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18th October 2019 09:18 PM
#63
Senior Member
Touring Pro (PGA)
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19th October 2019 11:46 AM
#64
Victorious Captain
Golf Hall of Fame Inductee
Lol, that was me asking
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20th October 2019 09:53 AM
#65
Junior Member
Plays with an ex-hire set
www.claytongolf.com.au Thanks to Lukas Michel - who I will be caddying for in the US Open - for putting the website together.
Mike and Frank are really talented guys and working in Europe and America will be a lot of fun. It's an interesting collaboration of designers of like-mind and it's exciting for all of us. And I will still be consulting and working here.
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20th October 2019 11:03 AM
#66
Senior Member
Touring Pro (European Tour)
Good luck Mike. Did u ever qualify/play in a USOpen? I remember you describing some of Tiger’s shots in his win at Bethpage Black.
Gamers
Ping G430 LST 9* Driver with CB55 stiff flex shaft
TM Stealth 2+ 3 wood with Crazy Boron 75g Stiff shaft
TM Stealth 2 Hybrid with Nemeses 90 M4 stiff shaft
Srixon ZX 5 (mk2) irons with Proj X LZ 5.5 shafts 4 to PW
Callaway MD5 Raw wedges
50/10 56/14 60/12
Lajosi Custum Flow Neck putter *Titty Pro V1X ball.
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20th October 2019 09:48 PM
#67
Junior Member
Plays with an ex-hire set
Pete,
I never did - they didn't have the European qualifying when I was playing there and no one went over if they weren't exempt.
The only one I've been to is that 2002 Open at Bethpage.
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20th October 2019 09:53 PM
#68
Stephen Leaney - 2nd place in 2002. Any memories Mike?
ps best wishes for the new venture. You have good partners (as always).
Benje
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20th October 2019 11:11 PM
#69
Senior Member
Touring Pro (European Tour)
Benje, Phil the Dill was runnerup to Tiger in 2002. Leaney was runnerup to 5 hour plus Furyk in 2003!
Gamers
Ping G430 LST 9* Driver with CB55 stiff flex shaft
TM Stealth 2+ 3 wood with Crazy Boron 75g Stiff shaft
TM Stealth 2 Hybrid with Nemeses 90 M4 stiff shaft
Srixon ZX 5 (mk2) irons with Proj X LZ 5.5 shafts 4 to PW
Callaway MD5 Raw wedges
50/10 56/14 60/12
Lajosi Custum Flow Neck putter *Titty Pro V1X ball.
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21st October 2019 11:14 AM
#70
Junior Member
Plays with an ex-hire set
Originally Posted by
Mike Clayton
Pete,
I never did - they didn't have the European qualifying when I was playing there and no one went over if they weren't exempt.
The only one I've been to is that 2002 Open at Bethpage.
Benje,
I do - I couldn't have wished for better that John Sloan and Bruce Grant to begin with..
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21st October 2019 01:12 PM
#71
Senior Member
Touring Pro (Nationwide Tour)
Mike are you playing at Warragul in their week of golf or just speaking at the dinner , thoughts on the course if you have played it ?
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21st October 2019 03:39 PM
#72
Senior Member
Touring Pro (European Tour)
I really enjoyed Lukas' interview with Andy on The Fried Egg podcast episode from the other week. Great win in the Mid Am in Colorado. Bizarre what happened at the end of the Final there.
Ping G400 Max 9* w/ KuroKage TiNi Silver 60
Titleist 917 F2 15* w/ Aldila Rogue Max 75 S
TaylorMade TP UDI 20* w/ KuroKage 70 S graphite
Mizuno MP-4 4-PW w/ Project X Rifle 6.0
SM5 Vokey 50* F Grind & 54* F Grind
SM6 Vokey 60* S Grind
Bettinardi Queen B 8
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21st October 2019 05:22 PM
#73
Thanks PTP - for some reason I have a mental block on 2002 and 2003. My bad.
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21st October 2019 06:33 PM
#74
Senior Member
Golf Hall of Fame Inductee
Originally Posted by
Grumpy8
Mike are you playing at Warragul in their week of golf or just speaking at the dinner , thoughts on the course if you have played it ?
oh when is that, I really need to come down and play Warragul again. I got a lot of ancestral history there.
--
Criticism doesn't bother me, as it means I am doing something and people are watching.
Handy-Cap
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21st October 2019 09:12 PM
#75
Senior Member
Touring Pro (Nationwide Tour)
Originally Posted by
markTHEblake
oh when is that, I really need to come down and play Warragul again. I got a lot of ancestral history there.
Better get your skates on if you are serious, 26/10 to 1/11 100 th annual dinner is on the 30/10 , mike is one of the guests. You can usually get a game in most of the events
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