Virge's Swing.

[KristianJ]

1. I have played at that speed for my entire golf life. Not going to slow it down unless i can find a real reason to.

Maybe it's just me, but the "flushed" swings from January look like a slightly slower takeaway. Or it could be that you're taking it further toward the horizontal in those ones, hence creating the illusion.

[David Williams]

G'day Virge... Looking pretty good mate...

Serious question here... You've been working on your swing and changes for a while now... What do you intend doing with it? Keep changing it? Forever work on it?

Just interested to know where all this is leading

I do know one thing... you've probably taught a lot of people about the swing by showing the progress and talking about it along the way... kudos for putting it out there.

Hope your well

WILLOW

[virge666]

Maybe it's just me, but the "flushed" swings from January look like a slightly slower takeaway. Or it could be that you're taking it further toward the horizontal in those ones, hence creating the illusion.

Could be right mate... but to be honest, I couldn't give a shit about tempo. Rhythm and sequence I do look for, but what speed you execute is such a personal thing.

The way I am hitting the ball - the "push back" or sway from the first move on the takeaway comes from a little forward press just before taking the club away and it doesn't move me off the ball too much... so, again - not really an imperative thing to fix as I cant see how that woudl effect impact.

I dont look at each section and try and fix each section to what a text book says it should loook like. Morons who do this, spend half their life fixing the cosmetic stuff and not what effects impact. When i look at mine or any swing, I just look at impact, or the 2 or 3 frames before and after. I go backwards and forwards about 15 times to see how I use the ground, how stable and balanced my swing is and most of all see if everything is going in the right direction.

If I see a fault, I try and work out what I need to change earlier on in the swing to fix that fault. My fault with the low right arse and hang back flip through has been sorted by switching to a different method of taking the club away and using my body differently. It doesn't look THAT different, but my brain has different thoughts on the downswing and follow-through and that seems to get the job done.

My low lefter snap hook shot has been improved to a high left shot with way less hook... I still block the ball when I slide, but it is a lot less often.

The flushed swings look angrier though...

[Webster]

My low lefter snap hook shot has been improved to a high left shot with way less hook... I still block the ball when I slide, but it is a lot less often.

Swinging straighter should fix that problem Virge.

[virge666]

Serious question here... You've been working on your swing and changes for a while now... What do you intend doing with it? Keep changing it? Forever work on it?

Just interested to know where all this is leading

Dave,

Before the spinal staph infection , I played for 2 years and shot over 80 I think twice, maybe three times. I played golf 3 times a month and usually shot 2-6 over every weekend. Back them I had the ability to fix my swing on the course and chip and putt my way out of trouble.

I lost it after the few months in hospital, and not till recently, have I had the ability to know this newish incarnation of my own swing and hit the ball how I use to. I cannot tell you how sick I was of missing greens with a bloody 9 iron and having no idea why... actually, I knew technically what I was doing wrong - but couldn't fix it and couldn't feel it. I went from hitting it straightish with small shapes in either direction to missing greens by 30m with an 8 iron. Or hooking a wedge 20m left into water from 90m. The other thing that shits me is that our Pennant team is pretty good, but I should be able to play with them in the middle somewhere, not be the groupie hoping to get a game at reserve.

I know consider my full swing done and dusted... I can hit my 7 iron 145 with that compact swing and I can driver 260 with that swing.

Next step is the wedges. 120m in. Take the feelings from the fullswing and mold them into 3 swings for each club up to 9 iron.

My shortgame is always pretty good, my putting from short range is deadly, but my lag putting is ****ing atrocious. I have not quite worked out a way to lag putt without a lot of practice. I just dont have the time to hit the putting green. So any advice from anyone on a system for distance putting with very little practice is truly welcome.

I would love to bullshit myself and say scratch by the end of the year, but not playing 3 times a week and an hours practice at the range on Thursday each week, but that aint going to happen. 2 would be good, especially around our goat track.

Thanks for taking the time mate - hope you and the family are well.

[virge666]

Swinging straighter should fix that problem Virge.

[Webster]

Virge, look at the way that little yellow guy is flogging that dead horse - he aims straight, swings straight and makes perfect contact every time. Exactly what I'm talking about.

[dan]

The golf swing is round, not straight.

[Jono]

Virge, re: lag putting, try putting to different distances whilst looking at the target, rather than your ball.

[Webster]

Or just hit the first putt closer.

[David Williams]

Sorry to hear about all your issues...

This quote baffles me...

Dave,
but my lag putting is ****ing atrocious. I have not quite worked out a way to lag putt without a lot of practice. I just dont have the time to hit the putting green. So any advice from anyone on a system for distance putting with very little practice is truly welcome.

WTF is lag putting? Sounds negative to me... Could thinking of trying to hole a putt every time be out of the question? Surely being more positive towards your putting and focusing on the hole and trying to roll your ball in will go along way to solve the issue.

You also asked for a system to improve your distance control without practicing... Virge I believe every golfer, especially one as talented as you, has an inbuilt "this is how hard I should do it" mechanism. I think if you focus more on being positive and getting out of your own way, you might just find that feel for distance control your searching for.

So a system might be to ensure you have a sound pre-shot routine where there is more positive reinforcement about the putt and less thinking. The old guys at the club who seem to hole a lot of long putts don't practice and have terrible techniques but I'm sure they have this putting caper sussed. There's the hole... line up and try and hole it.

[timah!]

The old guys at the club who seem to hole a lot of long putts don't practice and have terrible techniques but I'm sure they have this putting caper sussed. There's the hole... line up and try and hole it.

I was chatting to Popper about putting the other day. He was saying he and the trainee were beaten by 5 kids in the group clinic he was at. My response ' Kids don't think about it, they just look at the hole, line up to where they think it is and hit it how hard they think they need.' Kids don't think about the consequences, and I think it's the same when you just go out to hit balls on course - you grab your putter, and just hit it at the hole 'not really worrying' about it. Usually, the putts are hit pretty well...

[David Williams]

Exactly Timah... I'm currently working with a good player who has been putting poorly. He was worrying about technique and his alignment. He was analyzing and over thinking everything and therefore becoming more concerned with the outcome. He was 3 putting quite often due to not getting the pace right.

He is now working on purely focus drills and clearing the chatter in his head before and during the putt. Not surprisingly he only had 1 three putt last time he went out... that was on the last when he was 3 under and trying to save par. Started thinking again and rolled the first putt 6 feet past.

[jacksparrow]

The golf swing is round, not straight.

I agree.....

[KristianJ]

Virge, any other useful places where you found Foley's stuff besides Youtube and Golf Digest?

[virge666]

I was chatting to Popper about putting the other day. He was saying he and the trainee were beaten by 5 kids in the group clinic he was at. My response ' Kids don't think about it, they just look at the hole, line up to where they think it is and hit it how hard they think they need.' Kids don't think about the consequences, and I think it's the same when you just go out to hit balls on course - you grab your putter, and just hit it at the hole 'not really worrying' about it. Usually, the putts are hit pretty well...

WTF is lag putting? Sounds negative to me... Could thinking of trying to hole a putt every time be out of the question? Surely being more positive towards your putting and focusing on the hole and trying to roll your ball in will go along way to solve the issue.

A few points on this.

i) I work with a lot of juniors, and most of them putt like shit. They have little distance control and are way too short. This quote is usually from a old bloke who cant putt for shit watching a young bloke who can play pretty well and has spent time on the practice green developing touch and feel whilst their parents are inside having a beer. Kids also do a lot of putting comps which also refines touch. They earn the skills, they just don't magically have it because they dont care if they miss.

ii) You will also see the stupid demo of "throwing keys" and AMAZINGLY be the right distance. Also a crock of shit, as you aren't bent over at the waist and side on when throwing the keys or ball or whatever. It is a quote by "mental coaches" to free up the brain from guessing and letting the internal "practiced feel" though. Rotella is the king of this and it only works if you know how hard to hit it in the first place.

Lastly, I am not a 15 marker trying to get my putting stats down from 38 putts a round. i am a player who average 31 putts a round and trying to get it down to sub 30. if I practice putting for a couple of weeks, then I will surely develop some feel, but I just dont have the time. So I am looking to a way to replace hard work, with some kind of system.

Let me give you an example.

You can spend 3 months on your short game developing feel with your 3 wedges. Learning how hard to hit the ball with each wedge and where it bounces and releases. Or you can learn Paul Runyan's rule of 12. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTCpkYqF8Ig)

You can learn how far your pitching goes, or you can learn Dave Pelz clock method or Sean Foley number method.

You have to have a method, and that can either be a system or can be in-grained with practice. When you cannot practice, you need a system that you can go through to execute, otherwise you have no idea how hard to hit the ball.

In each instance - you are replacing that practiced instict with a system or method, and where it gets really good is when they mold into one and the method or system becomes "owned" by you. Then you can bring Rotella's stuff and let it all flow . . .

So . . I am looking for the system for Lag putting that I can then own and refine, I simply dont believe in the "internal look and hit" method, which even if it was true isn't going to work as i have no faith in it.

As for the positive reinforcement and not worry about the consequences... I just dont care for it. I am a pretty laid back bloke and it is just a game. The only thing I pissed off at is standing over a putt not knowing how far to take the putterhead back, and how hard to hit it when I am 20 plus feet away. As for holing it, or thinking of holing it - whatever, if it goes in from 30 feet, YAY !!, but there is more of a chance of holing it if it gets to the hole with some decent speed on it, instead of being too fast or never making it.

anyway - rant over.... thanks for getting this far.



I am going to try this for a month or so and see if it works in my head. i use to use 2 inches of backswing for every pace of putt. but drifted away from it when I could practice a bit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWHdESwOmz0

It will start off very mechanical - but I should be able to refine it to make it more natural. Feel through Mechanics - or that is what I have been told by some yellow book . . .

Enjoy.

[virge666]

Virge, any other useful places where you found Foley's stuff besides Youtube and Golf Digest?

His DVD ?

it is pretty scarce though. And the DVD isn't that good... really. It is good if you already watch plummer Stack and Tilt DVD set though.

[razaar]

virge

I haven't posted in a while but I had to smile when I read your post, especially the part about no time to practice but there has to be a system to get you sub 30 putts per round. Here's a tip - extend your research and learn everything you can about putting. In my experience, most of the really good info is not on the net. On the topic of distance control, perhaps you should look at how you achieve this in chipping (the power source, the timimg and order of movements). Putting should be the same, only more delicate.

There is a saying about short-cuts - "the only real short-cuts are more and more know how." Researching is fun. Particularly when stumbling on something that rings all your bells. Good luck.

[Yossarian]

I am a pretty laid back bloke and it is just a game.
... rant thanks for getting this far..

...

[KristianJ]

His DVD ?

it is pretty scarce though. And the DVD isn't that good... really. It is good if you already watch plummer Stack and Tilt DVD set though.

I'll check out the torrent sites then...

BTW, will you be anywhere but on course this Sat morning? I bought something on eBay that I need to go and pick up at Collaroy and I have a shaft and a 906F2 head that need unioning.

[virge666]

KJ

What time you thinking ??

[KristianJ]

10ish, I think. Got some stuff to do in Penrith at midday.

[virge666]

10ish, I think. Got some stuff to do in Penrith at midday.

I will be home mate. Hit me on the phone

[markTHEblake]

Or you can learn Paul Runyan's rule of 12. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTCpkYqF8Ig)

I will admit, I almost gave up watching this after 4 mins, but worth watching in the end. Thanks.
though my issue is, I reckon I'll chip once a month using this method, unless I play another course. Nobby little raised greens, only one shot required

[virge666]

I will admit, I almost gave up watching this after 4 mins, but worth watching in the end. Thanks.
though my issue is, I reckon I'll chip once a month using this method, unless I play another course. Nobby little raised greens, only one shot required

Raised greens . . . hasn't that idea been over done !

Brookwater exclusively has them !!!

I have used that method for near on 15 years... got the original idea from one of Faldo's video tapes. Then found the Runyan book years later. Willow and I then refined it with a further lesson in the USA. Perfect example of a mechanical and technical motion you can make your own and natural very quickly.

You can also play the same shot with an 45 degree open clubface for raised greens !!