Virge's Swing.

[virge666]

Looks good Virge.
A lot like what Robbie Curtis has me doing now.
What club shaft and model was that (serious q's as i was looking at ball flight)

Blue handle is Cobra CB with ProjX 5.5
Black handle is AP2 710 with S300

[dan]

not just me bashing it.

Are you saying that you couldn't bash it before and stay in balance? Cos I've seen you hit it just as hard with your old swing. The difference now is you seem to have confidence in this method but we'll see what happens when the honeymoon is over.

[virge666]

Are you saying that you couldn't bash it before and stay in balance? Cos I've seen you hit it just as hard with your old swing. The difference now is you seem to have confidence in this method but we'll see what happens when the honeymoon is over.

Amen to that.

But check out the first two swings... it is a different balance, posture and speed. In the first swings - I am using my body to counter balance the swing, but the last couple of swings are from a more solid base.

You can also see how much faster I generate speed in the last set of swings.

[razaar]

Well inbed it....the last thing we learn in golf is usually the first thing we forget.

[Captain Nemo]

Blue handle is Cobra CB with ProjX 5.5
Black handle is AP2 710 with S300

What iron, 6/7?

[virge666]

Well inbed it....the last thing we learn in golf is usually the first thing we forget.

hell yeah - how true is that.

What iron, 6/7?

7 iron mate.

[Captain Nemo]

Ok great now gives me a picture.
Robbie has me putting my rght forearm low and feeling the backswing is goig outside the line (its not really).
Then i just turn and downswing and hit nice draws!

[Jarro]

Virge, got a vid of the driver swing handy ?

[martinez]

It may or not be a honeymoon, but Virge, I think if you give the runners stance a try...(It's step one in the vid) and feel tall in your right side and turned toward the hole more you will get a U'ge payoff given what you have described as your main issues.

edit..I realize that may be different in the extreme to the Edwin deal...but as they say, in for a penny...

[virge666]

It may or not be a honeymoon, but Virge, I think if you give the runners stance a try...(It's step one in the vid) and feel tall in your right side and turned toward the hole more you will get a U'ge payoff given what you have described as your main issues.

edit..I realize that may be different in the extreme to the Edwin deal...but as they say, in for a penny...

Will do - the runners stance I have been trying with the short pitches... but more work needed.

As for the Edwin comparison . . . as with most patterns, there is not much different, just different terminology.

Your runners stance is like the "into yourself" setup... but your release is like the "down and around" bit that I have struggled with for ages. You are both Hogan-esqu in what you teach and that is what has brought me to this point.

And to be brutally honest - you are both VERY right sided or a better term is "strongly left sided" with the right side going around the left. Either way - more work and we shall see what happens.

Have a top weekend all.

Enjoy.

PS: What golf course are you at in the video with the beach and waves behind ?

[martinez]

Will do - the runners stance I have been trying with the short pitches... but more work needed.

As for the Edwin comparison . . . as with most patterns, there is not much different, just different terminology.

Your runners stance is like the "into yourself" setup... but your release is like the "down and around" bit that I have struggled with for ages. You are both Hogan-esqu in what you teach and that is what has brought me to this point.

And to be brutally honest - you are both VERY right sided or a better term is "strongly left sided" with the right side going around the left. Either way - more work and we shall see what happens.

Have a top weekend all.

Enjoy.

PS: What golf course are you at in the video with the beach and waves behind ?

Long Reef Golf Club.....

I think you'll find I have a lot that is not in common with Gary Edwin. I think if you can get to where the difference lies it will rid you of your right butt cheek down problem for good.

The left sided set up that he recommends, the way I see it...has your left side in the way and you must turn around it...the runners stance is the opposite of that in that it is designed to get your left side out of the way.....the resistance to the left side turning back seems to be a common ground. But from the runners stance you should be 50/50 weight distribution, if not favouring the right side a shade, and wound forward of the ball. Into yourself is right....but it's into your right side not left.

I say this with your best interests in mind....I think you should go to that polar opposite and see where it leads you. With your ability and knowledge of the swing...you will then be able to settle on the 'right' mix for you...the best balance for you.

[markTHEblake]

I think if you give the runners stance a try...(It's step one in the vid)

Thats almost what I thought when Virge started his ramble, that he missed the 'beginning' of the lesson, where you describe the golfers intention needs to be towards the target.

[virge666]

Thats almost what I thought when Virge started his ramble, that he missed the 'beginning' of the lesson, where you describe the golfers intention needs to be towards the target.

Golfers intention left = Into yourself or a touch of weight on the left side... Edwin calls it pressure on your left foot.

What this really means - or my interpretation of it is that you don't shift lower body weight to the right side on the backswing. You load into your right side on the backswing. Just like every other sport out there from tennis to Basball pitching.

Long Reef Golf Club.....

Damn - thought so !!

I live on the Northern Beaches.

The left sided set up that he recommends, the way I see it...has your left side in the way and you must turn around it...the runners stance is the opposite of that in that it is designed to get your left side out of the way.....the resistance to the left side turning back seems to be a common ground. But from the runners stance you should be 50/50 weight distribution, if not favouring the right side a shade, and wound forward of the ball. Into yourself is right....but it's into your right side not left.

A common mis-conception, my understanding of this is that they dont want the left hip to pull the right hip under on the downswing. And then this exploded to end up that Edwin is a no legs or hips swing . . .

The hips have to clear, and they have to continue to rotate through the swing, they just cant get in front of the upper body otherwise you hit it left all day. If you look at Pamps, Lamby or the Angry Dwarf you will see them ALL load the right side and clear the left on the downswing. it is a little more level than most - but the left always gets out of the way.

With regards to favouring the right side and not the left... think of a baseball pitcher. Even when he is coiling up - his upper body is going backwards - but if you do this - you have pressure on the ground with your front foot. So your weight is back - but your intention is forward.

Either way - I want something that matches up to every other sport I play such as Tennis, Squash and Cricket. If I am going to hit something to my left - I need to load up the right side against the left side, then unleash my right side. (i think that makes sense). If you throw a ball - you coil your right against your left and then unleash you right side with all the torque you have created.

The big difference between the two patterns as I see it is how the shoulders rotate, and I am open to both ways. Your method gives me the stable, lower right shoulder that Peter Cowan, Edwin and a few others advocate... and I am all for that any way I can, cause I suck at that.

As you say - in for a Penny - in for a pound.

Have a top weekend.

[martinez]

The last thought I'll leave you with regard to going around your left (which I don't agree with) is that the goal should be to line the right and left up so they can move together not one around the other...that way you can use it all. Think of a kicker taking the last delivery stride, to the cricketer playing a drive....a Javelin thrower switching from running straight on to sidestepping. In all cases the left side is the one expanding to allow delivery. If you stay compressed against the left you can only use the right side, I like to use it all.

[virge666]

The last thought I'll leave you with regard to going around your left (which I don't agree with) is that the goal should be to line the right and left up so they can move together not one around the other...that way you can use it all. Think of a kicker taking the last delivery stride, to the cricketer playing a drive....a Javelin thrower switching from running straight on to sidestepping. In all cases the left side is the one expanding to allow delivery. If you stay compressed against the left you can only use the right side, I like to use it all.

I agree on all counts mate - we are on the same page. The left has to move - it's rotation adds power and control.

If you restrict the left you have to rely on hand eye coordination to square the club up and that it just too hard.

[s12raider]

Virge - that's the bomb fella! Sh#T looked great to watch as I sit on my arse doing jack squat.

[virge666]

Just thought I would throw in that a couple of months of Martin's release and I am flushing it.

I don't use the lag takeaway - but the position at the top and the motion down is just gold. I am driving it 270-280m and straighter than I ever have and I an hitting my 6 iron up to 170m which is just bloody unheard of.

Life is friggin good.

[Daves]

Just thought I would throw in that a couple of months of Martin's release and I am flushing it.

I don't use the lag takeaway - but the position at the top and the motion down is just gold. I am driving it 270-280m and straighter than I ever have and I an hitting my 6 iron up to 170m which is just bloody unheard of.

Life is friggin good.

Good to hear Virge.

What are your thoughts on us mug choppers trying to master The Move? I haven't really put much time into The Move as yet, I have focussed on the other stuff that Martin showed us.

[virge666]

Another Thursday night and another night of hitting it well and learning.

Martin has this concept of containment and aiming the mass of the club. it is quite a clever concept and with cupping the left wrist on the backswing allows you to store quite a lot of power or lag for the release on the downswing.

The hard bit for mine is having a strong enough core and legs to hold the amount of power that gets stored up. I am dipping the upper body into impact and getting pulls, fat and even up fighting it with blocked shots.

I think I will spend some more time in aiming the mass at the ball and letting the clubhead trail - it feels very narrow and steep which is contrary to my teaching from edwin.

Lots of runners stance drills seem to stop the posture drop on the downswing. But the direction of the downswing is still a bit wrong...

Lets see what happens on the weekend... I think a littel fitness is required to hold this new foudn clubhead speed.

[aimnhit]

Virge is the swing really meant to be this hard??! I understand cupping the wrist is a power source but the problem is it's swooshing the face with way to much rotation.. Seems like a timing move.. Great for hitting it a long way but hard to contol I would imagine... So the basis of what's happening is creating the most lag possible???
The most powerful move in golf.. Correct statement...
Let us all know how it starts to work out.. Make me a believer..
Martinez I'm not having a crack at you buy anymeans if it comes across that way I'm sorry.. I'm just curious and asking questions.. I'm sure it would work and i probably just don't understand or you wouldn't be letting us all in on your secrets... Enjoying all your post cheers

[virge666]

Virge is the swing really meant to be this hard??! I understand cupping the wrist is a power source but the problem is it's swooshing the face with way to much rotation.. Seems like a timing move.. Great for hitting it a long way but hard to control I would imagine... So the basis of what's happening is creating the most lag possible???

To answer your question...

The golf swing IS hard... it is harder for a 20 marker than a 15 marker, it is harder than a 10 marker than a 5 marker and it is harder for me than it is for you. It is like anything - if you do it a lot then you don't spend time thinking about what you are doing - it becomes 2nd nature.
But for us who get to play once a twice a month with little practice - a lot of us play "golf swing" instead of golf.

The best comparison is learning to drive... first time in a car, matching the gear shift to the clutch . . all your attention is on it. 5 years later - "Is shifting gears really that hard ??"

next question . . .

The cupping the wrist stops it going left . . . you can hit it as hard as you like with that cupped wrist from any part of the backswing and it just won't go left. Sound familiar ??

Because of the rotation and the twirl . . and of the body, the cupping actually goes pretty bloody early (it is gone by the top of the swing) - but my current thought is that the cupping gets the actual clubhead a bit further away from you... which allows you to get a later hit... this is a guess mate - it is all feelings and I have only been doing it for a couple of months...

I cannot stress this one enough - it ain't a timing move... I shit you not... IT IS NOT A TIMING MOVE. I can perform this action a 20mph and 120mph with no problem. The pivot is loading the hands... so it is NOT timing. (that bit i am sure off)

I have spent a couple of full days with Martin and as I learn more - I wil post it here.

I am an Edwin boy from way back as I play quite a short course and i am more into controlling ball flight and making the game a little more fun and creative. I am also a bit of a geek when it comes to golf swings so i like the control RSS has anyway. I have seen you play many times over the years, followed you around twice just because I loved the way you have both your feet off the ground at impact and you unlike many professionals I see, you have "that sound", that WUMP sound at impact. I have that every now and then . . . . I WANT IT MORE !

Now my rant about Martin...

Martin has about 5 or 6 things that will change your swing. Personally - the most powerful move is lesson #5 and unless you understand lesson 1 through 4, then trying to do "the move" is bloody pointless. For mine - it is a process of learning and not an actual move.

Now - it is not new swing method - it is not an unconventional hold off swoop, flick, with a cupped wrist. It is as you can see by his swing looks a lot like 50 players on tour - he goes up on plane nicely - comes down strongly and has a lot of lag in it. When I first saw it I thought it was a mixture of Hogan and Trevino. Sort of single plane kind of thing.. and a bloody good motion by all accounts. (shit load better than mine !!)

What I see his method entailing is not so much "learn this powerful new move that gives you 20 yards" ... it is more - here is a better way to setup, a better way to get to the top, a better way to load the downswing... it ain't a different motion as such - just a better way to learn it. That is how I see it for mid markers.... NFI how he works with his plus markers and professionals. I am sure it would be more individualistic but with the same ideals.

Back to me . . .

I was at the range last night and was absolutely flushing it. Couple of things I noticed...

- For me - it is a rotary swing. This opinion may change, but for mine it is still a rotary swing, but the motion of the arms pushing in that rotary swing just adds so much more... so, so, so, so much more.
- the ball doesn't have a tail. Push and Pulls for bad shots - but not left going left and not right going right. This has been a statement by many of his students I have conversed with. The "Aiming @ the Mass" bit sort of squares you up nicely.
- I can fade the ball by bringing the club across me more... rotating left, but it ain't a true fade. Have not quite worked out anything else yet. I guess opening the club face and closing the club face . . . but I have had two range sessions with it, so WTF could i know about moving the ball after this...
- I have never in my life ever hit my driver or 3 wood and better than last night. The Nunchuk helps, but last night was a bit special. i actually had a few people watching me hit the same shot... same height, same direction... it was pretty cool as that has never happened before.
- I don't have any control with pitching yet... I only have power. But I do have clean, solid, contact and I do have straight... so we will see what happens over the next few weeks.

The bit that really has me thinking though is all the shit that has been said to me over the years... from TGM to Edwin to Cowan to Harmon to Leadbetter to the local pro... is that so much of their stuff fits into his swing ideology. There is very little contradiction, and mentally for a low marker... that is pretty important as I am not going to change my entire swing at all IF it doesn't makes 100% sense to me.

I am also a little drugged f*cked on the the amount of bloody power I have to spare... I was hitting 9 iron 150m on a cold night with Srixon range balls last night. Admittedly - I had nothing left in reserve, but I was still balanced and the ball was straight. It is not often I can say a solid (not smashed) 9 iron goes past 140m when I play a mizuno blade 44 degree 9 iron...

All in all - it has been about 2 months . . . I am still in the Honeymoon period and I would like to get a few comp rounds under my belt and see what my stats are like under a bit of pressure... more to come.

Enjoy

[virge666]

Please no more rain . . . had enough now.

[Captain Nemo]

Please no more rain . . . had enough now.

Oh really!
Im with ya brotha!

[virge666]

Being an Edwin student, I setup with a lot of my lower body weight over my left side... That really butchers Martins swing method.. Even with the inclination left

Found a way to do it on the 11th hole. Went 4 deep over the last 7 holes.

This week I am going to get another game on Tuesday or Wednesday. I have found another "thing" in the pattern. And the feeling is quite foreign.

More practice. But it is starting to click that little bit more... 23 points on the back nine shows it is starting to bed in.

New video when I can

[Yossarian]

Come holiday in perth virge. That hip, gary player thing had me smoking it at the range. Can't quite seem to bed it in.

23 points is good shooting!!