Virge's Swing.

[razaar]

Ed this is something that made me think also. If the shoulders are open at impact then the right elbow has to lag behind the hip other wise you would pull everything left. This method takes the late hit to the extreme and requires a very athletic move to get the belt buckle facing the target at impact. IMO not the sort of thing Virge should be attempting until he is fully recovered and has a few months of serious core work under his belt.

[edhannan]

" belt buckle facing the target at impact. "
That is extreme. But I wouldn't say that is what GE swingers are trying to do. At impact the shoulders are slightly open, the hips more so.
The belt buckle turns to the target in the follow through.

[razaar]

Yep there needs to be a 40* difference between the hips and shoulders at impact for power - if the shoulders are open to the target at impact then the buckle needs to be almost facing the target. Not a fan of this method but it will get it out there, if the body holds up.

[edhannan]

"...at impact...the buckle needs to be almost facing the target."
This is Pampling with a driver at impact

pampling impact..jpg

and post impact

Pampling post-im&#11.jpg

Not saying you’re wrong, Raz, but I don’t see it here.

[razaar]

Ed my comment referred to the shoulders being open to the target at impact with the right elbow riding on or behind the hip. Pamps shoulders are close to square at impact. Notice how tilted they are, tilted shoulders stop the shoulders from spinning and give the hands and clubhead a chance to catch up. Bubba Watson in the same position has his belt buckle facing the target. More flexible players who have a greater "X" factor (hardly have a hip turn with a full shoulder turn) fire their hips around maintaining their back swing position (shoulders to hips) and the buckle faces the target when the shoulders are square to the target. It has nothing to do with GE but with the physical attributes of the golfer. This is why so many club golfers get injuries - trying to get into positions their body can't handle.

[razaar]

I should also mention about those who don't get a full 90* shoulder turn and have a restricted hip turn. This type of player is 99 percent of the time going to have his shoulders open at impact. Therefore he must have the right elbow back further at impact to guard against the left hand pulling to the left too early. The stock shot for this type of swing is a strong draw which starts out to the right and comes back and his bad shot is a hook.

[virge666]

Yep there needs to be a 40* difference between the hips and shoulders at impact for power - if the shoulders are open to the target at impact then the buckle needs to be almost facing the target. Not a fan of this method but it will get it out there, if the body holds up.

You need to rethink that - the shoulders are not square. They appear to be square because the front shoulder is pulled across the chest. The shoulder are open and opening more.

Allenby would be a swing that has both very open and hence leave with the idea that you get a strong draw. Charles Swartzel would be a swing with the same kind of motion without the Strong Draw

As for the hips - you HAVE to get the front hip out of the way. This drops the clubshaft back on the flatter plane. I am not interested in getting the belt buckle towards the target at impact - but I will be clearing that front hip, as quick as I can.

[CanuckDownUnder]

Virge, I like to thank you for the UST shaft X that I picked up from you recently. Refitted in the G15 and I have been bombing them ever since. I'm averaging about 270m in yardage since the switch and hit my farthest drive ever @ 346m. Cheers

[virge666]

Virge, I like to thank you for the UST shaft X that I picked up from you recently. Refitted in the G15 and I have been bombing them ever since. I'm averaging about 270m in yardage since the switch and hit my farthest drive ever @ 346m. Cheers

No problem - anytime.

[edhannan]

Better looking vid. Nice slow mo.

Nice indeed.
Virge, what is the camera...and what is the speed setting to get this kind of result?

Also, would you please post a down-the-line vid.

[Bushka]

Virge, I like to thank you for the UST shaft X that I picked up from you recently. Refitted in the G15 and I have been bombing them ever since. I'm averaging about 270m in yardage since the switch and hit my farthest drive ever @ 346m. Cheers

346 ? Don't get long, get massive

[virge666]

Casio Epsilim and that is 210 frames per second.

It can do a lot more but the lense is just not up for it.

DTL - I will have to get one.

346 ? Don't get long, get massive

Yep - says a lot for Yoga and golf really.

[Bushka]

Speaking of hips firing, they had John Senden on the golf show tonight, dear me that man fires his hips out of a damn cannon. They are open and turning before he even starts down.

Yoga huh. Might get myself into that need to work on my core.

[razaar]

Tonight's swing after some drills looks a bit better

Attachment 5852

Attached is a video of the swing.

http://rapidshare.com/files/36188672...0310F.wmv.html

I did a lot of c0cking the wrist and leaving angle in the right wrist on the way down and clearing the hips like a bastard - you can see it has changed the posture through impact, but more importantly it has changed how the lower half moves through the ball. It still stalls, but it stalls a lot later and I don't hang back any more. Which results in way less flip !

I am rather chuffed with the change.

A couple of suggestions to consider.
First one concerns the stance. It needs to be wider to get rid of the slight dip in the legs into the follow through, The hip hip turn looks wrong to me, seems to be no left leg thrust to get the hip back quicker. The trick with this is to turn the left foot out 20-30* towards the target making sure that the alignment of the left knee and quad match that of the foot. Make sure that this alignment is maintained through the backswing, which makes it very easy to thrust back into the left heel and turn the hip behind you. Make sure the hips are a little left of centre for the reverse K.

The second suggestion concerns the left shoulder during the transition to the forward swing. To get maximum out of the left arm and shoulder lever, the top of the lever (the left shoulder) needs to be held momentarily to allow the other end of the lever (the hands and wrists) to move first. This movement should coincide with the thrust back of the left knee and foot.

[CanuckDownUnder]

Stick to Power Yoga (Ashatanga) Lengthens those needed muscles and strengthens that core. Also btw, I'm now paired up with a golf pro in Camerray and do golf fitness clinics there. Heaps of core work if anyone's interested. Now would that last blurb be a commercial posting?

[razaar]

Stick to Power Yoga (Ashatanga) Lengthens those needed muscles and strengthens that core. Also btw, I'm now paired up with a golf pro in Camerray and do golf fitness clinics there. Heaps of core work if anyone's interested. Now would that last blurb be a commercial posting?

Do you teach astanga yoga?

[virge666]

A couple of suggestions to consider.
First one concerns the stance. It needs to be wider to get rid of the slight dip in the legs into the follow through, The hip hip turn looks wrong to me, seems to be no left leg thrust to get the hip back quicker. The trick with this is to turn the left foot out 20-30* towards the target making sure that the alignment of the left knee and quad match that of the foot. Make sure that this alignment is maintained through the backswing, which makes it very easy to thrust back into the left heel and turn the hip behind you. Make sure the hips are a little left of centre for the reverse K.

Couldn't agree more - I hate my hip turn. It is due to what I thought the GE swing was, and I struggle to get rid of it. It looks like rocking backwards and forwards as opposed to actually turning. Add my classy spin and flip move through the ball and Yep... right with you.

I am probably not going to reverse K as much as you may like... mainly due to me liking to be more "covering" the ball during the swing.

The second suggestion concerns the left shoulder during the transition to the forward swing. To get maximum out of the left arm and shoulder lever, the top of the lever (the left shoulder) needs to be held momentarily to allow the other end of the lever (the hands and wrists) to move first. This movement should coincide with the thrust back of the left knee and foot.

I like that - I am at the range tonight and see what I can do, especially with the pulling of the left hip out of the way.

I need to sort that left arm too - split hand drills for that. Anyone got any others for the straight left arm ?

[Bushka]

Stick to Power Yoga (Ashatanga) Lengthens those needed muscles and strengthens that core. Also btw, I'm now paired up with a golf pro in Camerray and do golf fitness clinics there. Heaps of core work if anyone's interested. Now would that last blurb be a commercial posting?

I'm intersted in the ashatanga yoga aspect. Would love to do that but cammerays a punish to get to for me due to spit bridge. Will check around Manly for my own Swami

[razaar]

Virge
The best advice I have got for the straight left arm is not to give it another thought. Relaxed arms - like Geoff Ogilvy displays in his swing - is something all expert teachers advocate, which we should all incorporate into our game.

The other thing I failed to mention about the hip turn, is to keep the right leg in its braced position (which is left of its address position) at the top of the backswing and use only the left foot and left knee to turn the hips. The braced right leg stops weight flowing back on to the right side.

One of the things about the GE swing that confuses me is the perception that the golf swing is a forehand action (turning the trunk with the elbow riding on the hip as in the tennis forehand shot). The scientific studies I have read about the swing describe an uncomplicated swing as being a backhand action using a two lever system, which is backed up by the swings of all the world's leading players since the game began. Do you have any thoughts on this?

[virge666]

Virge
The best advice I have got for the straight left arm is not to give it another thought. Relaxed arms - like Geoff Ogilvy displays in his swing - is something all expert teachers advocate, which we should all incorporate into our game.

yeah - I use to think that, I may be moving to the other side. I am starting to think that a straight left arm gives a little more consistancy. Work in progress...

The other thing I failed to mention about the hip turn, is to keep the right leg in its braced position (which is left of its address position) at the top of the backswing and use only the left foot and left knee to turn the hips. The braced right leg stops weight flowing back on to the right side.

Cheers - I can try that.

One of the things about the GE swing that confuses me is the perception that the golf swing is a forehand action (turning the trunk with the elbow riding on the hip as in the tennis forehand shot). The scientific studies I have read about the swing describe an uncomplicated swing as being a backhand action using a two lever system, which is backed up by the swings of all the world's leading players since the game began. Do you have any thoughts on this?

[/QUOTE]

I don't like the word uncomplicated - the whole golf swing is very complicated. If it wasn't then more than 2% of the worlds golfers would be off single figures. The other bullshit word is "Natural", there is nothing natural about it, it is a completly foreign movement, there is nothing else we do or have evolved doing anything like this.

As for a comparison, I just think of it as a Body swing vs a Hands swing. One hits the ball with pressure and force, the other hits it with hand speed. Forget the GE side of it and compare other golfers.

Tommy Armour, Henrick Stenson, Duvall, Sorestam, Westwood, Casey, Stricker... these are all body swings. Phil's short game that he teaches on his DVD is a body release. Older guys like Hogan and Moe are also body release.

Thenn compare it to Phil's full swing, Poulter, Cink, Couples, Love, Bubba Watson, Senden and Glover where they are very handsy post impact.

There is always two levers here - always. A single lever wouldn't go very far

[Bushka]

This threads been great. Theres a wealth of info here.

One thing that is very much on my mind after reading about all this swing tweaking.

When you want to make swing changes, or actually build your swing. How do you do it? I try to visualise my swing and then attempt to repeat it physically. But if your making tweaks how do you build that into your muscle memory?

Do you do the swing exceptionally slowly several times? I am interested to know how you guys go about this.

[virge666]

This threads been great. Theres a wealth of info here.

Don't tell 3OD that . . .

Do you do the swing exceptionally slowly several times? I am interested to know how you guys go about this.

Drills - lots and lots of drills. With 8 iron up only. Very rarely will you find me at the range hitting driver.

See you up there tonight.

[CanuckDownUnder]

Do you teach astanga yoga?

I don't actually , but I have a client that teaches me. When she's away I go to Power Yoga in Neutral Bay. But if you can find one place in your area I suggest you try it. I've learnt to swing 200% effort with only a 60-75% swing if that makes any sense. I'm more flexible than ever , but only use about 60-70% range due to an increase in core strength.

[henno]

I've learnt to swing 200% effort with only a 60-75% swing if that makes any sense.

Nope, it doesn't.

[Yossarian]

There is no try, only 200% with 70%