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Thread: Virge's Swing.

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by virge666 View Post
    Hence my intrepidation on posting it.
    http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_th...epidation'





    spasticrap
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  2. #102
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    I stand corrected...

    That must really get up your nose. Much like my hatred of the term "Basically"

    I feel your pain.

  3. #103

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    "irregardless"

    That quasi-word sends shivers up my spine every time someone uses it.



  4. #104
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    Basically

    wtf is irregardless ?





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  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by virge666 View Post
    2 weeks ago is here - last weekd swings didn't come out because of light issues.

    These ones are still a bit uppy downy, didn't quite have the drop down and right hip sorted by then as I found something a couple of nights ago - but the turn is deeper.

    The bit I added was clearing the right side more agressively through impact. This had be going at the target a bit harder.

    http://happybandits.com/virge/Virge/SwingCuts250209.wmv

    I will get the latest swing up soon.

    Also I added this. it is from a Edwin Seminar and shows the difference between catchup and leverage. Gaz is a bit wanky with his desctipion of a catchup swing, showing it to be all wavey, but you should get the idea.

    Lastly is the fantastic description of BALANCE, and why I keep harping on posture.

    I may get into trouble for posting this - but seeing as it does not show any of the cool secrets that we have... it is more a generic advertisment for Edwin... I am hoping to get away with it.

    Enjoy.

    http://happybandits.com/virge/Virge/Leverage.wmv
    Virge,

    Edwin stuff is intriguing me. However, I must say that vid is a little annoying as Edwin seems hell bent on a sales pitch knocking the opposition.

    Is there any more links on Edwin stuff you know of? I did a scan of youtube but didn't turn up much.

    Also, can you tell me where is the power coming from in Edwin's swing?

    When I had a hit with rebjon yesterday we were messing around with the Edwin swing (he has studied it a bit). I was hitting clubs about the same distances but could not understand why.
    Naturally grippy

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by adlo View Post
    Virge,

    Is there any more links on Edwin stuff you know of? I did a scan of youtube but didn't turn up much.

    Also, can you tell me where is the power coming from in Edwin's swing?
    The power comes from the same place a normal swing comes from. Except instead of spinning the hips and then letting the club come around to hit the ball ... We spin our hips and hit the ball at the same time.

    I completely agree with your summation of Gary, the problem is that he is a pretty smart bloke that has been all but vilified over the years, so he is prone to taking the piss.

    Look at Darren Clarke, Ian Woosnam, Henric Stenson for the same kind of swing. Visually you will see the right side and shoulder come around at the same time.

    Technically - it is a different hand action (Hogan's five lessons) and the direction we turn in. It is a much deeper turn with the right hip.

    http://www.garyedwingolf.com.au/

  7. #107
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    This is a quote by Pete Draovitch (Norman’s fitness instructor in the 1990’s) about coordination of power transfer from lower to upper body in the swing.

    “Maximum power is generated in the golf swing when the action of the lower body generates a counterclockwise acceleration of the hips around the axis of the spine. The hip segment accelerates first, creating a dynamic loading of the trunk musculature. The shoulder segment then follows the lead of the hip segment in a counterclockwise direction and accelerates. At this time the hip segment begins to decelerate. This action passes energy to the trunk as these muscles contract to accelerate the shoulder segment. The result is the creation of power and rotational speed of the shoulders, about double that of the hips.

    The desired interaction between hip segment rotation and trunk segment rotation occurs in perfect sequence during the optimal swing. The key to this coordinated action is a high level of strength and flexibility through the trunk area, especially the muscles that contribute to trunk stabilization and rotary movements”.

    This book is “Complete Conditioning for Golf” by Pete Draovitch/Wayne Westcott. Foreword by Greg Norman
    Consciousness and awareness - awareness is being aware of what is happening and being aware of what is happening within ourselves while we are conscious. Where did I leave my glasses?

  8. #108
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    Virge, I was giving some thought after reading Hogan's Five Lessons to the discussion we had on the 9th tee at Ashlar that day, about the arms starting the downswing and the hips kicking in as the arms have moved about a foot.

    That seemed a decent diversion from the sequencing Hogan described. Is that an Edwin thing?

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by razaar View Post
    “Maximum power is generated in the golf swing
    Yep - damn right, Maximum Power.

    The problem I have with this is control. Using your left side to create the torque in the upper body is a fine way to hit the ball hard.

    But to a bloke who gets to practice once or twice a fortnight, I have a problem getting the timimg right between pulling my left hip out of the way and letting my right side come round at speed.

    I find it much easier to get my right hip and shoulder through at the same time, add to this Hogan's hand action and it is just easier to play decent golf. I do hit it further by spinning the hips... but I play golf a lot better with the extra control, especially with 6-iron up.

    Both methods work absolutley fine. Like everything in golf - it is a trade off between distance and control. I am under 80kg at present and have no problem hitting the driver 250m. (4i about 190m, 8i about 140m)

    But... Norman hit the ball miles... best driver of a golf ball ever. Slightly different work ethic to me though.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottt View Post
    Virge, I was giving some thought after reading Hogan's Five Lessons to the discussion we had on the 9th tee at Ashlar that day, about the arms starting the downswing and the hips kicking in as the arms have moved about a foot.
    No - it is not a part of either pattern.

    The downswing is started with a brace / bump / turn / spin of the hips. This in turn loads the upper body.

    The problem at Ashlar is that your legs were driving / sliding forward. I need to legs to stay quite solid and for your hips to rotate - NOT slide - ROTATE.

    The easiest way to do this with most players is to tell them to start the downswing with their arms. The focus is then on their arms to start instead of saying "Don't" spin the hips. This usually get players to brace for the downswing with their hips and legs instead of trying to use the legs to generate more speed.

    Edwin call it a bump, TGM call it something else, some people call it the sitdown..

    Same shit - different smell.

  11. #111
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    Virge....the transfer of weight to the front foot starts the ball rolling (dropping the hands down to belly button level), the hips then do their thing followed by the trunk rotation which pulls the hips to where you want yours to be. It is the trunk and upper body rotation that is very evident in the swings of the European tour players you mentioned above. European players have a noticable separation of the left side from the right side to start the downswing and all rotation to the finish.
    Consciousness and awareness - awareness is being aware of what is happening and being aware of what is happening within ourselves while we are conscious. Where did I leave my glasses?

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by razaar View Post
    Virge....the transfer of weight to the front foot starts the ball rolling (dropping the hands down to belly button level), the hips then do their thing followed by the trunk rotation which pulls the hips to where you want yours to be. It is the trunk and upper body rotation that is very evident in the swings of the European tour players you mentioned above. European players have a noticable separation of the left side from the right side to start the downswing and all rotation to the finish.

    Is it transfer of weight or rotation of the upper body ?

    For the arms to drop, they have to drop against something to create leverage. You will find on slo-mo that the hips are moving forward first.
    Last edited by virge666; 9th March 2009 at 08:22 AM.

  13. #113
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    No mate its the transfer of weight that comes first ...its what you referred to as the bump in an #110. For those players who play with the toe/heel/toe foot action (all power swings seem to have this foot action), the first movement is transferring the weight from the right heel (80%) & front toe (20%), to the left heel (50%) and right foot (50%). This sets up the leverage to turn the left hip (the right hip should have turned in the backswing; the turning left hip activates the torso muscles that turns the trunk etc.. everything has to be given time to work in sequence to maintain the continuity of the forward swing..if there is a breakdown it sort of "strips the thread" and causes power leakage.

    Irv Schloss a legend European teacher (decades ago) had this to say about the disposition of the shoulders at directional change "The middle of the back, as the swing changes direction, should remain pointing towards the target, as it was at the top of the backswing. By the time the hands are halfway down, the shoulders should only be 45 degrees to the target line".
    Consciousness and awareness - awareness is being aware of what is happening and being aware of what is happening within ourselves while we are conscious. Where did I leave my glasses?

  14. #114
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    Razaar...what is the toe/heel/toe foot action?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toolish View Post
    Razaar...what is the toe/heel/toe foot action?
    Sounds like a bloody barn dance to me.

  16. #116
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    Toolish
    Its a turn where the weight moves back onto the right heel (80%) and forward onto the ball of the left foot (20%). There is a feeling of a diagonal push down and out into the ball of the left foot which sets up a tightly wound position at the top from the knees up. It is a feeling of tension and coiling & creates potential energy for generating power in the downswing and through swing. It is really a matter of getting the tension right with a full coil before exploding everything back through impact. On the downswing the weight shifts to the left heel finishing on that heel (80%) and right toe (20%). You should be able to wiggle your left toes in your shoes at the finish without rolling on the side of the front foot.
    Last edited by razaar; 9th March 2009 at 09:14 PM.
    Consciousness and awareness - awareness is being aware of what is happening and being aware of what is happening within ourselves while we are conscious. Where did I leave my glasses?

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by razaar View Post
    No mate its the transfer of weight that comes first.
    I will ask you the same question I asked Jono.

    - What is "weight" and how do you transfer it ?

    - More importantly - how do you teach transfer of weight to a student without them tilting and sliding ?

    I love how you have broken everything down to toes and heels, but nothing details direction of the turn and to me - that is the most important part.
    Last edited by virge666; 9th March 2009 at 09:32 PM.

  18. #118
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    Virge, where is a decent place to start with the GE swing?
    If I can hit it the same distance as a "classic" swing, I am sold, it is so repeatable. I have been swinging the club without hitting balls and love the stability of the right sided swing.
    Naturally grippy

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by adlo View Post
    Virge, where is a decent place to start with the GE swing?
    If I can hit it the same distance as a "classic" swing, I am sold, it is so repeatable. I have been swinging the club without hitting balls and love the stability of the right sided swing.

    Give the boys a call and ask them for a local pro.

    or...

    Jon the website for $40 a year. more videos on there than you can poke a stick at.

  20. #120
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    I dont think there is one, from what Rebjon has said. Well there is the golfguru, but not keen on that option.

    Might look at joining the website. Cheers.
    Naturally grippy

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    There's an opening for you Virge. Sunny Perth, plenty of fresh meat to teach the GE ways to... a new career beckons!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottt View Post
    There's an opening for you Virge. Sunny Perth, plenty of fresh meat to teach the GE ways to... a new career beckons!
    Compliment accepted.
    Naturally grippy

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    The way you and JC carry on I'm not sure you're all that fresh but hey, gotta take compliments where you can get them!

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by virge666 View Post
    I will ask you the same question I asked Jono.

    - What is "weight" and how do you transfer it ?

    - More importantly - how do you teach transfer of weight to a student without them tilting and sliding ?

    I love how you have broken everything down to toes and heels, but nothing details direction of the turn and to me - that is the most important part.
    To me, weight in this context is a slight shifting of the body's centre of gravity around the spine.

    How to teach a student...first a simple explanation of the golf swing - the backswing is the body turning and the arms lifting; the downswing is in reverse, the arms drop and the body turns through. I learnt by two methods - a pause at the top and lowering both arms down behind me; and a pause at the top and shifting the weight that was pushing down into the ball of the left foot to the left heel (which also dropped the hands behind me). The problem for most golfers is they get the right side of the body turning first before the arms start their downward movement. Tilting and sliding is mostly the result of a slide during the back swing where the right hip moves laterally instead of behind & towards the left. There are very few people who can turn their upper body into a full coil and have their hips stay in their address position. I have only seen one player who could do this and he could still do it in his 70's - Keith Drage.

    The direction of the turn is controlled by the picture (or sense) of the target which should be in your mind's eye. Also another reason why the pros are always working on alignment and ball position.
    Last edited by razaar; 10th March 2009 at 07:11 AM.
    Consciousness and awareness - awareness is being aware of what is happening and being aware of what is happening within ourselves while we are conscious. Where did I leave my glasses?

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by razaar View Post
    Tilting and sliding is mostly the result of a slide during the back swing where the right hip moves laterally instead of behind & towards the left
    Let me play devils advocate....

    "But i have to keep my head still and shift my weight to my right side." says the student.


 

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