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Thread: Virge's Swing.

  1. #601
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    Quote Originally Posted by razaar View Post
    I am a bit confused about how the legs work in your action. Can you describe what they do?
    Let me reword that. Throwing a ball is a front on action where the harder the throw the further the right hip moves back against a braced right foot and knee. The weight (centre of mass ) moves back against this brace. The throwing action starts with the the weight being transferred forward towards a resisting left foot/lower leg which firms up and braces as to ball leaves the hand. The golf swing is a side on rotating action.
    yep - but lets throw side on... as the right hip moves back the front knee bends forward.

    And on the throw/release the right hip thrusts up and past at the left, it is not stationary - but it doesn't spin out of the way. This allows you to keep the right arm bent longer for a later release.

    Boom - Right sided action

  2. #602
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    That doesn't make any sense because the left hip has to pull the left shoulder around if the legs are doing the work. At the top of the backswing the left hip is more towards the target than the left shoulder. It retains this relationship at impact because the hip is pulling the shoulder around, this is part of the kinetic link that your mate Zen keeps harping about.
    Consciousness and awareness - awareness is being aware of what is happening and being aware of what is happening within ourselves while we are conscious. Where did I leave my glasses?

  3. #603
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    This is fascinating stuff... seriously.
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    Courty
    Normally I wouldn't post about this stuff because it can be confusing to the multitude of golfers. However, I feel a duty to Virge because of his passion for the game to help him sort through his thinking about the swing. It can be a mind twister when your body performs movements a certain way. The mind tends to reject anything else until you have a complete understanding that there is a more efficient/better way. That is the process I hope we are going through now.
    Consciousness and awareness - awareness is being aware of what is happening and being aware of what is happening within ourselves while we are conscious. Where did I leave my glasses?

  5. #605
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    The force is the resistance of the left side which is working from left to right .

    This was fascinating to me, i didn't notice this until i read it and thought about it.

    Insightful.
    Why exactly do I need to answer to you?





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  6. #606
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    Virge, your swing looks pretty lazy in that video. Nothing to do with not enough extension/width or whatever. You always swung that way. However, your swing was more dynamic before.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
    Virge, your swing looks pretty lazy in that video. Nothing to do with not enough extension/width or whatever. You always swung that way. However, your swing was more dynamic before.
    Bugger - i really like it. Still got the swing plane going left... but the ball flight is rather nice and the misses are only about 10-15m each way.

    Oh well.

  8. #608
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    Quote Originally Posted by razaar View Post
    Courty
    Normally I wouldn't post about this stuff because it can be confusing to the multitude of golfers. However, I feel a duty to Virge because of his passion for the game to help him sort through his thinking about the swing. It can be a mind twister when your body performs movements a certain way. The mind tends to reject anything else until you have a complete understanding that there is a more efficient/better way. That is the process I hope we are going through now.
    No need to explain, Ray. I've held a longtime view that you & Virge are both 'masters' of swing mechanics, but have very different ways of expressing/ communicating that knowledge. The back & forth is fascinating.
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  9. #609
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
    Virge, your swing looks pretty lazy in that video. Nothing to do with not enough extension/width or whatever. You always swung that way. However, your swing was more dynamic before.
    His swing has always looked the same to me despite all the swing changes he goes through.

  10. #610
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    Very interesting stuff re right side vs left side...humping the goat cant be helping.



    virge.jpgvirge2.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by virge666 View Post
    Bugger - i really like it. Still got the swing plane going left... but the ball flight is rather nice and the misses are only about 10-15m each way.

    Oh well.
    I like these swings better.





    I think your swing in these videos are more dynamic.

    Let me illustrate one way I think it is more dynamic, have a look at these positions.

    This is when the downswing has just started. First picture is your new swing and the second is your old one.


    virgelazy.jpg


    virgebetter.jpg


    See the difference?

    In your new swing, the right elbow stays flared out behind you and the shaft comes down steep. Your leg are less dynamic too. Really, what you are doing is just "dumping" the clubhead on the ball. I say "dump" instead of "throw" because throw is a much more dynamic movement.

    Look at the picture of your old swing. See how it looks much more dynamic. Right elbow is getting into a "throwing" position. Or as Gerry Hogan likes to refer as "the slot". Flattens the club better and retains the lag better. Your legs and hips are much more dynamic here too. You spine is in better position as well.

    I got the following pic from one of your practice moves in your old swing clip. When you first posted this video earlier in the year, I think I commented that I never saw you doing this move during your practice routine before. Look what you are doing with the right elbow here. Almost looks like Ben Hogan. You are externally rotating at the right shoulder joint and you are moving the right elbow in front of you rather than letting it get behind you which is what you are doing now.


    virgepracticeswing.jpg


    Here's down the line view of your practice routine at the time.

    virgepracticeswing2.jpg


    I have drawn some lines to show where your current right elbow position and shaft position would be with your new swing. The red line represents the right arm, red circle is right elbow and the blue line is the shaft.

    virgepracticeswing2lines.jpg


    What do you think, Virge?
    Last edited by Jono; 29th June 2012 at 09:45 PM.

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    Why do the pics I attached show up with attachment numbers rather than pictures?


    Edit: I uploaded the pics again and it seems to have solved the problem.
    Last edited by Jono; 29th June 2012 at 09:51 PM.

  13. #613
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    Virge...you'd know best whether fixes are in order and what those fixes are. The swings look good to me, but I think I'm seeing:
    - a longish right arm at address
    - some overhinging at the top; more noticeable down the line than front on
    - in the downswing some right side lower body activity that is maybe too much or too early
    - a low exit of the clubhead/shaft

    I think Edwin touches on some of these issues in his recent vids.

  14. #614
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    Quote Originally Posted by edhannan View Post
    Virge...you'd know best whether fixes are in order and what those fixes are. The swings look good to me, but I think I'm seeing:
    - a longish right arm at address
    - some overhinging at the top; more noticeable down the line than front on
    - in the downswing some right side lower body activity that is maybe too much or too early
    - a low exit of the clubhead/shaft

    I think Edwin touches on some of these issues in his recent vids.
    Nice pick Ed... I completely agree.

    110% agree - off to the range tonight to fix 2 of the 4.

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    Do you think we could bring up TGM and have an argument of the merits of TGM vs Edwin .... oh no that's right this isn't a TGM run site ....

    Sorry continue on ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by qbnchopper View Post
    Do you think we could bring up TGM and have an argument of the merits of TGM vs Edwin .... oh no that's right this isn't a TGM run site ....

    Sorry continue on ...
    yes - lets do that and then we can do the swinger s hitter, then 4 barrell power smashing and god know what other shit we can dream up.

  17. #617
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    virge
    Everybody seems to have differing versions of a swingers action and that of a hitter. What is yours?
    Consciousness and awareness - awareness is being aware of what is happening and being aware of what is happening within ourselves while we are conscious. Where did I leave my glasses?

  18. #618
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    Quote Originally Posted by razaar View Post
    virge
    Everybody seems to have differing versions of a swingers action and that of a hitter. What is yours?
    Dont believe in it... I reckon all swings are a mixture of both. I think it is one of the most pointless arguements on the web.

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    Quote Originally Posted by virge666 View Post
    Dont believe in it... I reckon all swings are a mixture of both. I think it is one of the most pointless arguements on the web.
    Yep, agreed. Some are stronger one way or the other but really not sure anyone is pure either.

    I have found I am getting more hitter all the time as I play less...wonder if there is something in that?

  20. #620
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    About the only version of swinger vs hitter that made any sense to me is - a swinger lets the ball get in the way of the swing whereas the hitter makes the ball the object of the swing. Pretty much summed it up for me.
    Consciousness and awareness - awareness is being aware of what is happening and being aware of what is happening within ourselves while we are conscious. Where did I leave my glasses?

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    Quote Originally Posted by virge666 View Post
    yes - lets do that and then we can do the swinger s hitter, then 4 barrell power smashing and god know what other shit we can dream up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by virge666 View Post
    Dont believe in it... I reckon all swings are a mixture of both. I think it is one of the most pointless arguements on the web.
    Have you seen the religion thread?

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    Quote Originally Posted by virge666 View Post
    Dont believe in it... I reckon all swings are a mixture of both. I think it is one of the most pointless arguements on the web.
    Hey ... we agree on somthing.

  24. #624
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    Quote Originally Posted by razaar View Post
    About the only version of swinger vs hitter that made any sense to me is - a swinger lets the ball get in the way of the swing whereas the hitter makes the ball the object of the swing. Pretty much summed it up for me.
    I got the basic idea from this one, tho i reckon you've definitely seen it Ray. The rope vs axe handle.

    A swinger basically holds the club in his left hand and pulls the grip end of the club down towards the ball - as if he is pulling on a rope. This technique is called the rope handle technique.

    A hitter usesan axe handle technique whereby the right hand applies a radial force to the clubshaft at the grip end of the club. When hitting, a golfer applies an active right arm-powered force as push-pressure to the back side of the grip end of the shaft via push-pressure applied at pressure point #1 and #3.



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  25. #625
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
    What do you think, Virge?
    I like it, Just don't know how to get it to happen.

    Hit some good shots last night - but I don't like the massive clearing of the hips. Getting that right arm a bit further away might help, it shoudl tuck the elbow in, but the ribs need to be in a different place for that to happen. Seriously - there comes a point where my brain just gets the whole analysis - paralysis thing. I only play twice a month and it is so hard to groove anything when you hardly play the game.



    Enough sooking... back to the course.


 

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