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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeekendHacker View Post
    The club lost some 80 - 100 members last year. This meant a hit in funds of between $80,000 - $100,000 straight away from membership fees alone. Add to that the $100.00 per head bar tab and what these members may spend in the club and pro shop and you start to see a substantial loss in income. The club is viable at present but if it cannot boost membership in the next 12 months it may be a different story. They are currently offering 18 months for the price of 12 to get new members in but I don't think it is having too much of an impact.
    That's a shame, if I lived out that way (I don't and don't plan to) it would definitely be on top of my list of clubs to join.

    I used to work out that way and contemplated joining up just for hits before and after work.
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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeekendHacker View Post
    The club lost some 80 - 100 members last year.
    Do you know why they left?

  3. #53
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    What's the fee there? I am heading out to work in Blacktown from May-November and that happens to match up with when my membership at Penrith ends through to when I leave for the UK.

    I suppose if the club needs cash they might do me a good rate for 6 months.

  4. #54
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    Scottt - $1100 per yr for 7 day membership + $100 bar levy
    http://www.ashlargolfclub.com.au/cou...age=membership

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottt View Post
    What's the fee there? I am heading out to work in Blacktown from May-November and that happens to match up with when my membership at Penrith ends through to when I leave for the UK.

    I suppose if the club needs cash they might do me a good rate for 6 months.
    Its $1200 per year including a $100.00 bar tab.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by amanda View Post
    Do you know why they left?
    I think the majority of them were Korean members that went to Cabramatta or Bankstown. The rest I am unsure of but its the same all over at the moment.

  7. #57

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    Well all the members of Ashlar shouldnt get there hopes up just yet on a new coarse, as usual noone has thought about the surrounding residents, and we have had any consultation and not been comunicated with or advised what the hell is going on, or how the process will affect us if it goes ahead.

    I can tell you all here, that we the residents along Richmond Rd and Noel Street , that have properties that back onto the Golf Coarse have all received letters from Urban Pacific wanting to buy our properties to enable better entrances and apeel to the new load of streets and houses that will be put in place on the existing Ashlar Coarse..... and i can just say "over our dead bodies"....we dont want this, we live here and have for years, no one wants to sell,or is going to, WHAT, did you the members all think they were just going to build addon streets from Springfeild ave, wake up.....we are all now going to suffer because of this, not just the club, or you golfers, us the residents are about to get it shoved up our rears, but we will fight for our land, our homes, and for our right to live here as much as anyone else.

    Bring it on Mr Sator.

    And Craig Scott, you will be getting some phone calls and visit's m8, from alot of Residents that want answers.

  8. #58
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    Thanks for your input.

    This is just a forum of about 400 people from all over Australia. We have no power in these matters.

    Have you written to the government & planning minister ?

    I hope your fight goes well.
    Last edited by Andrew; 3rd May 2008 at 01:41 PM.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by leaveusalone View Post
    Well all the members of Ashlar shouldnt get there hopes up just yet on a new coarse, as usual noone has thought about the surrounding residents, and we have had any consultation and not been comunicated with or advised what the hell is going on, or how the process will affect us if it goes ahead.

    I can tell you all here, that we the residents along Richmond Rd and Noel Street , that have properties that back onto the Golf Coarse have all received letters from Urban Pacific wanting to buy our properties to enable better entrances and apeel to the new load of streets and houses that will be put in place on the existing Ashlar Coarse..... and i can just say "over our dead bodies"....we dont want this, we live here and have for years, no one wants to sell,or is going to, WHAT, did you the members all think they were just going to build addon streets from Springfeild ave, wake up.....we are all now going to suffer because of this, not just the club, or you golfers, us the residents are about to get it shoved up our rears, but we will fight for our land, our homes, and for our right to live here as much as anyone else.

    Bring it on Mr Sator.

    And Craig Scott, you will be getting some phone calls and visit's m8, from alot of Residents that want answers.
    Put some effort in mate. Most people here try to get noticed with their first post, not just sneak under the radar like you...

  10. #60
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    Welcome leaveusalone

    As for Craig - why not try calling the local newspaper? The Blacktown Advocate is looking for people to interview about the project.

    On the other side of the argument - I know someone who received one of those letters - and registered their interest in selling to Urban Pacific, as did a few of their neighbours. Perhaps not everyone is against the project.

    I believe something similar happened along the road parallel to the train tracks at Doonside. The new Edgewood housing estate seems to have increased property value in the surrounding streets by a significant amount. Mind you - it wasn't building over a golf course - but property values increased all the same.

    Playing devil's advocate here - suppose that Ashlar GC goes bankrupt? The courts/liquidators would be forced to sell the land in a way that provides the greatest return to creditors (usually the bank) and may end up selling to a developer anyway.

    We have been looking at land very carefully for the last 3 yrs - Urban Pacific seems to be one of the few responsible land developers - block sizes are reasonable (usually min. size 650sqm). Compare that to the work of Mirvac, Australand, Delfin/Lend Lease - Ropes Crossing as an average block size of 450sqm. Homes spaced out have more long-term value than many houses crammed together. Thereby also increasing surrounding property values.

    Now - I'm not saying whether I agree with what UP, Ashlar GC, Blacktown Council, the NSW Dept of Planning say/do/intend - just providing some food for thought.
    Last edited by amanda; 5th May 2008 at 07:20 AM. Reason: got ppl mixed up

  11. #61
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    Craig? Who the ***k is craig?

  12. #62
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    Has anyone predicted if Ashlar members will fall on the same sword as Kellyville if the deal is done? A club with no course?
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  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimBob View Post
    Has anyone predicted if Ashlar members will fall on the same sword as Kellyville if the deal is done? A club with no course?
    Kellyville has a course its just under development still out at Pitt Town. Not going to be too bad a course either.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottt View Post
    Craig? Who the ***k is craig?
    Craig Scott is the GM at Ashlar. Great bloke and has been doing a fantastic job since he started at Ashlar.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeekendHacker View Post
    Kellyville has a course its just under development still out at Pitt Town. Not going to be too bad a course either.
    Wow - that's a big move - isn't it quite a fair drive from Kellyville to Pitt Town? (and I'm pretty sure they are trying to rezone whole tracts of land out there from rural to housing)

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by leaveusalone View Post
    Well all the members of Ashlar shouldnt get there hopes up just yet on a new coarse, as usual noone has thought about the surrounding residents, and we have had any consultation and not been comunicated with or advised what the hell is going on, or how the process will affect us if it goes ahead.

    I can tell you all here, that we the residents along Richmond Rd and Noel Street , that have properties that back onto the Golf Coarse have all received letters from Urban Pacific wanting to buy our properties to enable better entrances and apeel to the new load of streets and houses that will be put in place on the existing Ashlar Coarse..... and i can just say "over our dead bodies"....we dont want this, we live here and have for years, no one wants to sell,or is going to, WHAT, did you the members all think they were just going to build addon streets from Springfeild ave, wake up.....we are all now going to suffer because of this, not just the club, or you golfers, us the residents are about to get it shoved up our rears, but we will fight for our land, our homes, and for our right to live here as much as anyone else.

    Bring it on Mr Sator.

    And Craig Scott, you will be getting some phone calls and visit's m8, from alot of Residents that want answers.
    At the end of the day if you sell or don't sell it will only take a couple of the businesses on Richmond Road or residents in Noel Street to sell and the access is done and taken care of. They will not be looking to buy the entire street just a few adjoining houses to level so a road can be put through.

    If it is not UPL it IS going to be another developer as Ashlar is no longer financially viable moving forward. Dropping numbers of golfers everywhere, a clubhouse that is away from the main road and looking like something straight out of the 60's is all adding up to making the club in 3-5 years time on extremely shaky ground. The land will be rezoned and someone will pick it up for a song and it will in 5 - 10 years time be a new development.

    The fact is that whilst some people may object to the development of the Ashlar land it is going to happen. UPL and Medallist have some major clout when it comes to land and housing development. Once the member vote get passed, and it will be passed through the club, it is just a matter of when and not if the development goes ahead.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by amanda View Post
    Wow - that's a big move - isn't it quite a fair drive from Kellyville to Pitt Town? (and I'm pretty sure they are trying to rezone whole tracts of land out there from rural to housing)
    It is a big move and it is about a 20 minute drive from where there club was to the new site. There is a development of land that is going ahead out there at the moment. It is not connected to the course at all. For the new club, Lynwood Golf Club, it will give them a good base of new members from the housing being developed out there now so if old members of Kellyville choose not to go there it should not impact too badly for them in the long run.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by amanda View Post
    Wow - that's a big move - isn't it quite a fair drive from Kellyville to Pitt Town?
    Lots of golfers are now members of clubs not that close to their homes nowadays, other factors come into it.
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  19. #69
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    The Pitt Town course is tied up with the LEP for Pitt Town and a massive redevelopment of an orange farm into housing by a bloke named Keith Johnson. It was headed to the L&E Court about a year ago when I finished working out there.

    The course is supposed to be very good, as a layout, at least.

  20. #70
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    Scottt

    Keiths development is fully approved and is not "tied" up in any way with the Pitt Town course. Keith has, as is a developers way, gone back for a bit more density but stage 1 development is now turning dirt. The balance of much of the land in the Pitt Town area has two major issues for further residential development:

    1. virtually all of it is flood affected and hence not able to be rezoned or not financially viable.

    2. Pitt Town sits outside of the designated areas for rezoning in tthe Sydney basin. Keith rezoning was achieved predominantly as the process had been underway for a number of years prior to the rezoning strategy for the sydney basin being put in place. The government has advised the development industry that "spot" rezonings outside of the strategy are highly unlikely.

    So in fact there is unlikely to be a "high" desnity of people at Pitt Town and these courses will need to trade off the population within a 15-20 minute drive time which is firslty not overly wealthy and secondly not overly dense. As with Twin Creeks, Camden Lakeside and (the first example) Riverside Oaks these courses will struggle especially if a private membership model is followed.

  21. #71
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    I actually think Riverside Oaks might have been more successful (Pat Cunningham is the fifth owner that I know of) if it had been a private club rather than a public resort course. It suffered from not having accommodation, and being a pretty shitty drive from most of Sydney until motorways proliferated. Even now it's much harder to get to than Twin Creeks or Lakeside.

    As well as that, if you were planning a family weekend away, there is sod all near Riverside to entertain non-golfers, and an extra 45mins or so from Sydney you can be in the Hunter, nelson bay or the souther highlands - which all offer more.

    As far as decent private clubs, the Hawkesbury only really has Richmond and Windsor (Kurrjong Hills and Grose Wold are terrible 9holers), so there is room there for4 another course.

    I realise the Pitt Town golf course and KJs development weren't intertwined, but for a long period of time hawkeabury Council was delaying the course so it could see what would happen with the residential development. It also has resident concerns about infrastructure and floodtimje exavuation, which is a major issue for that section of the Hawkesbury.

  22. #72
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    I suspect 'leaveusalone' has done some Googling, found our reference to the development, and pasted the form letter from the protest group. Good work with the emoticons though.

    I'll predict we won't see too many more posts, particularly if he/she works out that we have no influence over the decision process.

    Having said that, from a purely selfing point of view, if I was a resident I'd be dead against it too.

    The entire northwest corridor is a bit of a golfing conundrum isn't it. Kellyville disappears, Ashlar may disappear, but at least two new courses may spring up to replace them. My feeling is that the new course marketers may misread the market if they pitch too high. I'm not sure there is much demand for a high level course in the mortgage belt.
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  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeekendHacker View Post
    Kellyville has a course its just under development still out at Pitt Town. Not going to be too bad a course either.
    What I was getting at was, they were supposed to have a course when Kellyville closed down, however they have taken it up you know where due to no fault of their own.

    KV closed down some months ago & they may have 9 holes by the end of the year, not a great predicament for members.

    Let's hope if the deal is struck it is handled better than the previous one.
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  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimandr View Post
    I suspect 'leaveusalone' has done some Googling, found our reference to the development, and pasted the form letter from the protest group.
    My goodness - if that's the form letter the protest group is using - then they may be in trouble! Poor spelling and using value & emotion laden terms never gets people anywhere.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimandr View Post
    My feeling is that the new course marketers may misread the market if they pitch too high. I'm not sure there is much demand for a high level course in the mortgage belt.
    The thing is for Stonecutters is that they are building a Residential Golfing Development. A little different to just putting in a championship golf course in a declining market and hoping people will come and join or play there.
    The thing that Stonecutters has going for it is that it is a Greg Norman designed championship course in the heart of the Sydney Metro area right on an exit/entry to the M7. This should be a Corporate Golf Day haven once it opens. Close to every thing and with some great facilities I think it will take away from some of the other clubs within Sydney and beyond for these types of Corporate and Social Golf days. There is also that group of golfers amongst us who will flock there to play anyway as it is a Greg Norman course. If it is marketed right it will be a huge boom for the club...if not........


 

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