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29th March 2008 06:52 PM
#1
I'm conviced: straight left arm a must.
I've been playing golf (actually mostly practicing at the range) for 1 year 1 month. I've recently convinced myself that in order to get more consistent and accurate shots I need to keep my left arm ram-rod straight throughout the entire back swing. I convinced myself by looking at this list of World Number 1 Male Golfers and then YouTube'ing their swings.
Greg Norman
Tiger Woods
Ernie Els
Vijay Singh One of the few? who bends his arm
Then there's:
Adam Scott
I think it's helped, and I think I've also got longer as well. I have yet to manage bringing that straight left arm fully vertical because it seems I just don't have the flexibility but I hope that will come the more I work on it.
What do you think of this hack's theory?
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29th March 2008 07:24 PM
#2
I'd say plenty will agree, and plenty will disagree. The question is young grasshopper, what works for you?
I know my left arm bends during my backswing, but I've found it near impossible to keep it straight. But I could understand how it adds some consistancy.
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29th March 2008 07:30 PM
#3
Senior Member
Golf Hall of Fame Inductee
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29th March 2008 07:31 PM
#4
I was never any good at that either!
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29th March 2008 10:01 PM
#5
Senior Member
Touring Pro (European Tour)
Hate to tell you this B1 - if you think that hitting balls at the range is playing golf - boy have you got a lot to learn.
Good luck on your journey.
FlowerGolf
What's in the bag
Driver :Taylormade R7 draw HT
3 & 5 wood -Taylormade R7 draw
Hybrid - TM R7 draw 22,28
5 - SW Taylormade XD Burner
60 - Wishon wedges
Putter - Yes Natalie
Ball - Whatever!!
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29th March 2008 11:00 PM
#6
Senior Member
Golf Hall of Fame Inductee
It's fine to learn from these guys swings, but us mere mortals haven't got a hope of mimicking them. I very much doubt that the average amateur player has the flexibility to complete a backswing without bending the left arm. If you can, good luck to you, but I don't think it's the be-all & end-all.
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30th March 2008 11:15 AM
#7
Member
Club member who plays rain, hail, shine
i've found i get more control and more distance by being loose and relaxed throughout my swing.
although when hitting my wedges - i only swing 3/4 but with a straight left arm.
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31st March 2008 08:58 PM
#8
Originally Posted by
Flowergirl
Hate to tell you this B1 - if you think that hitting balls at the range is playing golf - boy have you got a lot to learn.
I don't, but if you can't even hit the ball I don't see much point in trying to learn course craft. You're not going to learn much.
Originally Posted by
Courty
It's fine to learn from these guys swings, but us mere mortals haven't got a hope of mimicking them.
Yeah we do. They're not any different from you or I. If you think like that of course you never will reach their standard.
Originally Posted by
Courty
I very much doubt that the average amateur player has the flexibility to complete a backswing without bending the left arm. If you can, good luck to you, but I don't think it's the be-all & end-all.
It's not everything no. I just thought there was a trend there that others might have noticed or wanted to refute. My thinking goes that perhaps a straight left arm helps when the pressure is on. Someone with a bent left arm maybe bending it more or less than usual because of pressure in a big tourny and hence lose consistency. The player with the straight left arm has eliminated one variable from their swing.
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31st March 2008 09:06 PM
#9
Senior Member
Touring Pro (PGA)
If it works for you then it works... for you.
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6th April 2008 12:28 AM
#10
Originally Posted by
jarro
It's probably more important to have a flat left wrist
Indeed. Your comment had me looking again at those pro golfer swings I linked to above and it turns out I had missed that they all have a flat left wrist ie their arm, wrist and hand are all in a perfect straight line at the top of their backswing, even the unconventional swingers. The way I was doing it was bending my wrist back at the top of my backswing in order to get more angle, which I thought meant more lag and therefore more power. Effectively I was paddling the ball away; keeping the face of the club square to the ball all the way through the backswing. I was hitting fairly long but not consistent. I had heard about this thing where you roll the wrist to get more power but could not understand how that was supposed to work and had dismissed it as one of those subtle things only the pros managed to pull off. But everything finally fell into place and made sense once I flattened my wrist! Now that it's flat the wrist roll happens naturally between 90degr to impact and impact. I've had one practice session after this revelation (couldn't wait to try it out once it dawned) and my second shot with the 3wood went 200m on the lob, perfect low bullet trajectory, but the most amazing feeling for me was that it felt effortless - I'm a tall slim guy with thin weak arms (cyclist; strong legs tho). I was always trying to grunt it out there trying all sorts of things, but with the straight left arm, in plane back swing and flat left wrist it all came together. So smooth. My first two iron shots, a club I struggle with normally, were perfectly straight, exactly the same trajectory and landed in exactly the same place. I struggled with my driver though; I think I was reaching too far, too horizontal perhaps. Just gotta keep practicing. It sure does feel weird and alien though. I've played cricket, tennis, table tennis, badmington, the action is always a 'paddling' motion so this sure will take a lot of getting used to and retraining of the brain.
I think I finally have in my head all the components of a golf swing I need to hit well, and more importantly am convinced it's the right way after practice and watching the pros. It's just practice practice practice from now on.
A revelation for me. Thx again.
Last edited by b1_; 6th April 2008 at 12:32 AM.
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6th April 2008 09:54 AM
#11
Member
Club member who plays rain, hail, shine
B1,
are you having lessons?
and i think the previous posts are right - go belt a ball around a course.
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12th April 2008 12:32 PM
#12
I have had one lesson but didn't learn anything from it, and at $100 an hour most definitely not worth it.
Of course I have played on courses but it's not my prime focus. It's fun to be out on the course but not as enjoyable as it could be if I could hit it straight. So I practice.
At the moment I still can't get my driver working with this flat left wrist. No power at all, no consistency, no accuracy. Don't seem to be able to get my brain to engage the lag with this new grip. All other clubs are fine. I may be forced to get another lesson just to see what wrong.
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4th May 2008 03:44 PM
#13
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4th May 2008 05:22 PM
#14
Senior Member
Touring Pro (PGA)
Nice work b1.
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4th May 2008 06:03 PM
#15
Senior Member
Golf Hall of Fame Inductee
B1, I think it is impossible to keep the left arm straight, and I doubt that many golfers do, even the ones you looked at, including Tiger Woods. Whilst his might be straighter than Vijays, I reckon there is about 10-15% bend there, so Darrel Hair would still no ball him.
However - I don't think that there is anything wrong with *trying* to keep the arm straight, as there may well be residual benefits (probably improved turn and tighter wrist ****) But I think it is wrong if you actually achieved it
--
Criticism doesn't bother me, as it means I am doing something and people are watching.
Handy-Cap
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4th May 2008 08:14 PM
#16
Originally Posted by
markTHEblake
B1, I think it is impossible to keep the left arm straight, and I doubt that many golfers do, even the ones you looked at, including Tiger Woods. Whilst his might be straighter than Vijays, I reckon there is about 10-15% bend there, so Darrel Hair would still no ball him.
However - I don't think that there is anything wrong with *trying* to keep the arm straight, as there may well be residual benefits (probably improved turn and tighter wrist ****) But I think it is wrong if you actually achieved it
Looks straight to me. In fact Tiger Woods left arm looks even slightly inverted all the way through his swing.
You don't want to bend that left arm at all. Joe Dante describes it as the "easy chair slouch" fatal flaw (refer to this chapter 5). If you bend your left arm at the top you're releasing some of the tension that you just coiled tight from the backswing, and that you only want to release when striking the ball and not before. At the top of the backswing you're not supposed to feel comfortable.
I think some believe by bending your left arm at the top you will get more power but this is not how the swing works. Club head speed does not come from arm strength otherwise golf would be dominated by big beefy guys. Chapter 7 in that book explains it better than I could so I won't attempt to lecture here - I feel out of my depth already.
By keeping your left arm straight you don't lose any power if you know what you're doing, and you get a consistent arc to your swing which translates to consistent hitting.
When I first began trying to emulate Tiger Wood's and Adam Scott's straight left arm I found it impossible to keep it straight above horizontal. I kept saying to myself, 'how the hell do they get their club all the way up there and keep a straight left arm?'. I persevered though. To help me at the start I pulled my straight left arm up with my right hand somewhat, but now I'm finding after 6 months that the muscles in back of my left shoulder are stretching more and more allowing me to get back further and further on the backswing.
But I'm with Jarro in believing the flat left wrist is more important.
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6th May 2008 08:31 AM
#17
Admin Team
Golf Hall of Fame Inductee
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6th May 2008 08:53 AM
#18
Senior Member
Golf Hall of Fame Inductee
His replies are almost at Virge proportions !!!
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6th May 2008 01:30 PM
#19
Senior Member
Major Winner
Just my 2 cents.
You don't need a straight left arm but you need to have a constant strightish sort of angle in the left arm. The reason being is that if you start bending you left arm more and more on the backswing - your shoulders stop turning and your hands get too close to your body at the top.
The arms wrap around you instead of you coiling the upper body. There is more on this in the reverse pivot video I have given to Jono.
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6th May 2008 01:39 PM
#20
Admin Team
Golf Hall of Fame Inductee
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6th May 2008 01:42 PM
#21
Member
Club member who plays rain, hail, shine
bending your left arm will result in more lag in your swing... more power!
kidding.
or was i?....
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6th May 2008 11:30 PM
#22
Senior Member
Major Winner
Originally Posted by
SupaSubi
bending your left arm will result in more lag in your swing... more power!
Whilst it looks like it in some videos . . it doesn't USUALLY work that way. The hands work differently doing what you are or maybe are suggesting.
I use to do that until it was explained to me the pros and cons. When I get round to my own progression of the last 12 months . . . you may be able to see my reasoning for it.
You get more shoulder turn with a straight left arm . . . more power than widening the radius on the way down.
Enjoy
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7th May 2008 12:02 AM
#23
John Daly is one of those who bends his left arm (and I don't think he even keeps a flat left wrist):
John Daly swing vision on youtube
Perhaps not the most consistent golfer in the world but certainly long.
As far as I see it if you want to bend your left arm you may get more power because you can get your club further back (but surely debatable if Tiger Woods and Adam Scott hit similar lengths to Daly?), but it's going to be a more complicated swing. If you can handle that then by all means. I knew I couldn't handle it not having played when I was a kid or anything, so I went for the simplest, most compact swing I could achieve. My order of priority was consistency, accuracy, then power.
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7th May 2008 12:36 AM
#24
Senior Member
Golf Hall of Fame Inductee
Originally Posted by
b1_
Looks straight to me. In fact Tiger Woods left arm looks even slightly inverted all the way through his swing.
I checked the swing pics in his book, which has frame by frame many angles, and definitely bent in those pics. might look different in a swing video
If you bend your left arm at the top you're releasing some of the tension that you just coiled tight from the backswing
not quite sure whether that was someones quote or your own words but anyway, there is no tension built up in your left arm at all. Torso - yes, elbow - no.
But obviously, if you get into a horizontal position at the top, you will get more tension with a straight left arm than with a bent one.
--
Criticism doesn't bother me, as it means I am doing something and people are watching.
Handy-Cap
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7th May 2008 01:20 AM
#25
Originally Posted by
markTHEblake
I checked the swing pics in his book, which has frame by frame many angles, and definitely bent in those pics. might look different in a swing video
Fair enough, but I think we're picking hairs here. Daly's is bent, Tiger's is straight. If it's slightly bent I'm sure it's not something he's consciously trying to achieve to gain that extra inch of drive length. I think you'll find most people would describe it as straight.
Originally Posted by
markTHEblake
not quite sure whether that was someones quote or your own words
but anyway, there is no tension built up in your left arm at all. Torso - yes, elbow - no.
When I say 'coiled tight from the back swing' I mean all muscles drawn taut from the backswing action, including some in the left arm (back of left shoulder and back of left upper arm for sure).
The exact quote from the 4 Magic Moves book is below:
It happens this way. As the swing goes up toward the top, the whole swinging system gets tighter and a definite tension develops. This is felt mostly in the upper part of the body, the shoulders, the left arm, and the left hand. It is not a comfortable feeling. To ease it the player subconsciously checks the shoulder turn, lets the left hand bend backward as the wrist collapses, and loosens the left-hand grip. He's heard a thousand times that he should be loose and relaxed and comfortable, so he's going to be. Often, he even bends his left arm (Fig. 20).
The way Virge describes it with not turning the shoulders fully is a part of it.
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