Reply to the handicap thread...

[dougkpga]

I thought I'd start a new thread as there was a lot to answer and this reply is off track to the original thread.
First of all, apologies to for offending anyone with the sad comment. (I also put surprised in there as well.)
Second, apologies for not elaborating. It was a late night.
Third, sorry for not replying earlier. I have been away for a couple of days and also considering a reply as I thought it was important.

As backgound, here is a summary of the questions and comments.

dougk - This is one of the most surprising and saddest threads I have read....

goughy - Sad because we seem to accept where our games are at?
AndyP - Care to elaborate, doug
just - Yeah doug, don't leave us hanging! - see below....

Fishman Dan - You started the thread. Got another scheme to promote?
dk - No, don't have any schemes.

Jono - Pity ... Is that a new marketting strategy?
dk - no, contrary to what you think, every post I make is not a marketing strategy.
I am a golf pro who actually cares about how people enjoy their golf, and I have seen
the feelings of accomplishment when someone starts to get better at this difficult game
and start to understand it.

Just - As a disinterested observer, i.e. I haven't yet partook of doug's
advice, how about this: if you don't like it, don't read it.
From my point of view, doug has not gone the hard sell on any of his stuff,
just looked for opinions. If he was going after this as a marketing strategy
then he would be making a hash of it.
Why is he any different to any other pro who offers advice on a forum?
And I for one am genuinely interested in why doug thinks the responses so far
are sad.

Fishman Dan - You forgot this one Just;
PS - feel free to point out the advice from a Pro in this thread.

dk - see below

AndyP - Don't bring me into it. I thought your posts were harsh and agree
with just.

dk - thanks andy

Fishman Dan - Then you read them with the wrong intent.
It's like asking DougK - how much money did you make from playing golf
last year? It may not be his #1 interest. But to consider honest responses
sad was surprising from the guy who started the thread.

dk - money made from playing golf? Even sadder is the state of the PGA Tour in oz.
My friend Troy plays in a pro am and shoots 2 under for $151. The rest of the
field make zero, nada, nothing. btw, he pays entry fee, travel, costs, and it takes
7 hours. And the pro ams arent there to play 5 days a week.
The leaders, that's right, the leaders, in the oom on the von nida tour make about
$40,000 per year, less costs.

It just isnt worth being a full time player unless you have sponsorship. You can't even get a start in anything decent until you build up points playing the worst events in the sticks.
And where do pro ams lead to. Chalk and cheese to playing 4 rounders. So you have to pre q and there are 4 spots from 100 for 4 major 4 rounders. You have to go o/s. But where do you get the 4 round experience? From the von nida tour if you can get a start. Hope you are reading this Shaneo.

The other thing you need is a plan. I remember Baker finch, planning a whole year of exactly what he was going to do to win a major. And he did.

Money from lessons? Since moving to Qld and not working at a range, I have gone backwards. My book was my last attempt to try and make some sort of a living at golf.
I have always guaranteed my lessons on a not happy, don't pay basis and same with the book. The motivation for writing it was to give my students an exact step by step plan to follow to get where they wanted to go. And to help me take on less customers who would stick with a few lessons. Maybe spend the money and put the time in to reach their goals. As they would in any other endeavour. Just looking for the 10% of people who were serious.

I'm not looking for pity Jono. It was my choice to become a pro, and I was stupid enough to stay one for too long. btw, thanks for the advice about the site being like an infomercial. I just took advice from a guru copywriter and it turned out pretty bad, as you said.

just - The second sentence you quote clearly indicates that I am a disinterested
observer only in the sense that I have not used doug's services and
therefore have no bias when it comes to defending him or not.
Doug has provided no advice or comment within this thread as yet, but may do. He has certainly been asked to do so. Your post adds nothing of value, but if it makes you feel happy post away. I am only concerned about your welfare Fish.

dk - thanks just

AndyP - Originally Posted by Fishman Dan - Got another scheme to promote?
Nope, still reads the same to me, and that is, to question his motivation
behind starting the thread.

dk- thanks andy

Jono - Just, My comment about using pity as a marketting tool was a sarcastic
comment. I can't understand why he would put people down like that after they
answered his question honestly. If he is here to give advice, great.
It's a strange way of going about it though.

dk - in no way have I put any people down or inteneded to and thanks to everyone who posted the replies. I was just surprised by the results.

just - I don't think Doug put anyone down, I think he was expressing something
along the lines of: here is whole bunch of golf tragics, who play a decent
amount, try all sorts of equipment and training aids and yet for the most
part fail to live up to their capabilities, more regret than a put down.
But we all interpret things in our own way. I do agree Doug should have
elaborated at the time.

dk - well put just.

markTHEblake - Doug struggles to comprehend why most amateur golfers are more interested in buying the latest driver than actually improving their game, particularly
when its not really that difficult to improve, if you have a little motivation.
Yeah, that last phrase has a lot to do with it, but then again why but the
new driver.
There is no malice intended in his post. There is just a different mindset
between professionals and amateurs. For those of us that know him, know that
he loves the game so much and his passion is to see golfers improve, yet most
of us seem to be happy with mediocrity.

dk - thanks mark, you know me too well.

Fishman Dan - Mark - as forum users that discussion comes up frequently
(as you would know). Most often these days it just goes through to the keeper, partly because it's a tired argument, but I think we're just sick of asking the question - why?!
I think it was Gaz who once justified it by suggesting that some people like cars, some computers and so on - their thing is drivers, and a handicap anywhere from 4 (but never quite 3 ) and 27. There are others who like 2-3 year old technology (or 20-30 in your case). Around here that akin to bargain hunting.

dk - why? From the feedback, what is out there in terms of lessons, practice, equipment, stats needs a bit of a revamp.
believe it or not, that's why I wrote the program. It's all about strategies, for goal setting, assessment, efficient practice, accurate analysis etc.

Moe Norman - how is it depressing?
most people only break or equal their hcp once every 5 games

dk - true, but aren't you capable of more?

3oneday - The other very apparent trend is that I play in "streaks".
I play well for a few weeks or so then badly for a couple of months etc etc.

dk - if you are on a bad streak, you have to break it down to specifics of what is going wrong.

Shaneo's track to the pro ranks (from golflink) numbers are strokes over to calculate stroke average.
4
1
1
6
7
1
4
0
+2
0
1
2
2
9
2
38/15 raw
16/12 adjusted
1.33 stroke average if you take out worst 20% of rounds which is how the stroke ave for pros is calculated.
You are well under the 4.0 pass mark for a third year trainee -
IF you played medal tees and tournament setup each time.
If you played 36 holes in a day half the rounds.
If you played a different course each time (except 36 holers of course).
Good work mate, any advice you want feel free to PM me.


Ok - here we go to elaborate on why it was surprising and sad.

It is sad because a lot of people spend time and money on their golf, it doesn't work and then they put in results like the ones posted.

I guess it's the nature of the game, it is a hard game at any level. If it was that easy, I'd be making money from tournament golf. But my family and financial situation prevent that.
I still have to maintain a pretty high level of ball striking and play to get any credibility.

But there are shortcuts and once you learn them you can maintain form without a heavy practice schedule.

It's sad because the golf industry has been coming up with the next new thing forever.

I'm not sure what I can explain about the reason "why" in this thread. It's all about finding something that works consistently in each area of the game and moving on to the next one.

You start with putting first, short putts and then lag putts. Then chipping, solid contact and distance control, then punching, pitching, lobbing, bunker shots and maybe then start on the full swing. And before swing, what about alignment and pre shot routine. To shoot mid 80s you don't even need a driver, let alone spending $800 on one.

Then you need the recovery shots, different lies, curving the ball etc.

Oops, forgot to mention - before you do all this, you need a game plan. To make a game plan you need to know what the state of your game is in all the above areas.

That's why I will only do a playing lesson first up and all of the above is quite easy to address in 3 to 5 hours.

So sorry to the skeptics who think this whole thing is a marketing scheme, those who have met me know better.

[dougkpga]

Part 2 BTW, as trying to make a living out of golf is too hard and too heart breaking, I'm taking on a new career.

Then when I play golf with people who I help out of the goodness of my heart for no return and go home I won't have to explain to my wife why I haven't made any money for 7 hours, (and they don't follow up for a lesson like they say they will because I have helped them). Then I can play golf and help people for the enjoyment without the pressure of having to make a living from it.

So I'll still be a member of the PGA, I'll still instruct, but it won't be trying to make a part time income from full time effort.

Thanks again for your input.

[Grunt]

Thanks for the reply Doug.
One of my best friends has been through this too, but he got lucky. He moved into the pro shop at his local course and now has quite a good business. I remember when he was trying to get ahead playing and travelling all over NSW/SE QLD to play the pro am circuit. He was doing exactly what you describe, playing well; only to not earn enough to cover travel expenses.
Hope the new venture goes well.

[Webster]

Jeez.....thats one hell of a long rant - I couldnt get thru it all. Can someone condense it all into one or two pargraphs for me?

Ta. Jack.

[Rusty]

too easy Jack - condensed version is "give up reading"

Doug, i'll feel for ya.

[Jono]

Doug,

My comment about using pity as a marketing strategy was a sarcastic one. It's not something you should dwell on. Let's move on.

Since you are looking for honest feedback, I'll provide my thoughts.

IMO, your product tries to do too much. It's TOO comprehensive, if you like. You'll probably sell more units if you focus on a certain area.

The other thing is that it sounds like too much work. We all have busy lives and have limited time for golf and practice. As sad as this might sound, it is the reality. There are a few here that keep stats for every game, but probably more that don't.

I hope this is useful to you.

[dougkpga]

Jack - summarising the thread for you....

But there are shortcuts and once you learn them you can maintain form without a heavy practice schedule.

It's sad because the golf industry has been coming up with the next new thing forever.

I'm not sure what I can explain about the reason "why" in this thread. It's all about finding something that works consistently in each area of the game and moving on to the next one.

You start with putting first, short putts and then lag putts. Then chipping, solid contact and distance control, then punching, pitching, lobbing, bunker shots and maybe then start on the full swing. And before swing, what about alignment and pre shot routine. To shoot mid 80s you don't even need a driver, let alone spending $800 on one.

Then you need the recovery shots, different lies, curving the ball etc.

Oops, forgot to mention - before you do all this, you need a game plan. To make a game plan you need to know what the state of your game is in all the above areas.

[Webster]

doug, my game is just fine. i don't need any lessons. thanks anyway.

[dougkpga]

Thanks Jono - maybe I'll break it down as a home study thing - a monthly fee - but I have to learn how to do video to do it properly and the mechanics of putting up
a membership site

[dougkpga]

no probs jack...
let me know if I can help.
i am still trying to get the free book up on my site for you guys.

[Moe Norman]

way too long mate