Cars: Keep or Renew?

[jimandr]

Here is an old thread worth bringing back from the dead, only partly due to my post above.

Seven and a half years later, the Most Uncool Car Ever Made, my navy blue Tiida, is still going strong and it hasn't missed a beat in all that time. It has been the best car I have ever owned. But I have a strong feeling that the price of cars in my target range is about to go up, so it could be time to say goodbye.

So, rather than start a new car advice thread, I thought I'd bring this one back.

I'm looking at a 20k drive away price point, which leaves five options in my area. They are the Nissan Pulsar, Kia Cerato, Mitsubishi Lancer, Hyundai Elantra and Ford Focus.

I'm not a car buff (which is why I'm a happy Tiida owner), so I'm not really fussed. My main criteria are a boot big enough to fit the golf clubs and buggy, a little bit of power to climb the big hills and the ability to connect my ipod to the sound system. I don't care about airbag safety or other gadgets. All these cars can be bought from the local Ballina dealerships, and serviced in their shop.

At this point my advice request falls into two parts. Firstly, do the Ozgolf experts have experience with late models of the above cars? Secondly, should I buy now (or as soon as the next set of special deals come out) or wait until the end of the financial year?

Boy this post was hard to find, but here I am. I hinted in another thread that I had a car buying story to tell, and Chapter 1 follows right now.

First thing to say is that I reported to the car yards in Ballina in late March, thinking that would be a good time to buy a new car. The Hyundai and Lancer sales guy quoted me a price that I knew wasn't true (or as advertised) so I immediately crossed them off the list. If you are too lazy to look up the current price (or you don't know it) you aren't getting my business. At that time I didn't like the Kia Cerato price, so I decided to wait until it got better.

Fast forward many months. The prices on any of the cars I liked never got better, so once it was necessary to renew the rego, I decided to keep my Tiida (which still hasn't missed a beat) until the end of the year.

Just before Xmas I visit the car yards again. Instead of getting the hard sell, I got the no sell. The Hyundai and Lancer guy said he hadn't seen a Lancer in months, and he didn't have a Hyundai Elantra I could demo. He had to arrange for one to come down from Lismore, and he essentially asked me whether I was a genuine buyer or not. He clearly thought I was a time waster, so I decided not to waste his valuable time any further. So I went next door to Kia and Nissan. The guy there was much more keen to do business, so a Kia test drive was arranged for after Xmas.

In the week between then and the test drive, a big change took place. The Nissan Pulsar dropped in price to 16990 for 2015 plate cars. This is cheaper than the car I bought in 2007, so I wanted one if it wasn't a total dog.

When I turned up for the test drive, he had a Pulsar there, so I drove it. The Cerato was also there, so I drove it as well. The Cerato was narrowly the better car, but not by 3k, so a Pulsar was the choice. I specified the colour I wanted, and the sales guy said he would get to work and find one, but (ominously as it turned out) he told me that Nissan weren't easy to deal with, and it may take a while.

He calls me a week later to tell me he can't "find" a 2015 plate in fiery red (red cars go faster and pull the chicks, so I'm told), so I tell him to widen the search to a few other colours. A week later he calls again and says he can't any 2015 plate Pulsars at all. By this time, my car has been damaged in a minor accident as detailed in the Piss You Off Thread, so the goalposts have changed again from my side as well. He offers me a 2016 plate at 17990. Still a great deal, but because I no longer have a car to trade in, I can't go ahead until I know whether my current vehicle is going to be repaired or written off.

There is much more to the story. But I'll pause it there for the moment, and pose this question to anyone who has kept reading this long.

It seems to me that I have become a victim of smallish regional centre syndrome. No competition, so they don't try very hard because they know you can't just go to the next suburb to the other dealer. Have any of the guys who live away from the Big Smoke noticed the same when trying to buy a new car?

[benno_r]

*SNIP* Jim's long post

I haven't had to deal with it, but my parents just bought a new Navara. They went to both the Maryborough and Hervey Bay dealers, and from both was told there was nothing they can do.

They weren't looking to trade so did a ring around the Sunshine Coast, with many of the shops there willing to deal. Best deal gave them $6,500 off. They took this back to the local dealers, who told them that isn't possible, and the best they could do was knock $500 off. A 2hr drive to the Sunshine Coast later, new car was ordered.

I know it's a bit harder for you Jim, having no car right now, but Tweed Heads is a couple hours away, the Gold Coast a little more. I'd be giving them a call. I bought my current car from Tweed Heads Nissan, and they were willing to deal. It was a super easy transaction.

Cheers,
Ben

[Ferrins]

Benno suggestion is the best way if you have no connections in the industry. I have connections so would go a different path.

[BenM]

Jim, yes.

I have bought a bunch of second hand cars plus my current car (which was new) from the mainland for this exact reason.

Regional dealers get lazy IMHO. Definitely shop for prices further afield if you can, there are good savings to be had.

[goughy]

In my 44 years I've only ever purchased 3 vehicles so I don't know shit. Cept I hear from people up my way that buying locally is shit cause they don't bargain and many from my place head to Brissie. Or funny enough, they go further west! They say the dealers here get all the country people who are too scared to go to Brissie (too scared to drive through it) so they shop in Toowoomba. The two cars we've bought since living here were bought privately from Brissie.

[markTHEblake]

just use a new car broker, its easier, cheaper, and they deliver to your front door.
No sales bullsheet and you dont get forced to talk to the ming moll.

[oldracer]

I find it a bit like buying on the interweb, go find/drive the car you want to buy and then get on the phone/net and find the deal of a lifetime, simples. For a period of about 10 years, all my cars were bought from Bris/Sun Coast as they were the cheapest in Aus and a road trip is always good fun. Car brokers as Blakey says are now a good source for deals.

[WBennett]

Anyone got experience with 2012/13 Kia Sorento turbo diesels?

Looking at upgrading the wifes wheels and cant find bad stories about them.

[goughy]

just use a new car broker, its easier, cheaper, and they deliver to your front door.
No sales bullsheet and you dont get forced to talk to the ming moll.

Father in law considers himself a bit of a wheeler and dealer, but he's used these I think the last two times with great success. In particular last time he was after a very specific model.

[Daves]

Anyone got experience with 2012/13 Kia Sorento turbo diesels?

Looking at upgrading the wifes wheels and cant find bad stories about them.

I presume these came with the 7 yr warranty? If so, not a lot of downside.

[Johnny Canuck]

I presume these came with the 7 yr warranty? If so, not a lot of downside.

They only flipped to 7 recently. Probably has 5.

Kia has come a long way since the Carnival catastrophes.

[WBennett]

They only flipped to 7 recently. Probably has 5.

Kia has come a long way since the Carnival catastrophes.

5 year warranty.

The Carnivals were disasters, but I've been reading about the TD Kia and Hyundais and they seem pretty bulletproof. Not too many bad reports.

I wouldn't touch a Cruze or Captiva with a 10 foot pole.

[Johnny Canuck]

5 year warranty.

The Carnivals were disasters, but I've been reading about the TD Kia and Hyundais and they seem pretty bulletproof. Not too many bad reports.

I wouldn't touch a Cruze or Captiva with a 10 foot pole.

You are a wise man. Your research is solid.

[Moe Norman]

Thinking of getting rid of my C Class, taking the Disco and putting the wife in some sort of people mover type vehicle.

She was always dead against it, but after our US trip with the kids - she really liked the space and seating arrangements available in the mini van type vehicles, and the automatic sliding doors on each side. We got a Toyota Sienna a few times and it was great, but I don't think they have them here in Aus.

What else is out there? Seems to me its just Tarago and Kia Carnival?

[Timbo]

It seems to me that I have become a victim of smallish regional centre syndrome. No competition, so they don't try very hard because they know you can't just go to the next suburb to the other dealer. Have any of the guys who live away from the Big Smoke noticed the same when trying to buy a new car?

I moved from Melbourne to the country in my late 20's and I am convinced that regional car dealers do not try very hard. One of the reasons for this is that so many people in regional areas also don't try very hard to get a good deal. I am amazed at how many mates will trade their car in for bugger all and pay overs for a new car because "its just easier". If I said to them "I'll pay you $7000.00 to travel to Melbourne and drive around for a few hours and drive back" they'd do it, and yet that's all they really need to do.

To make things worse, regional dealers also get spiteful if you don't buy local. Recently I had to get a minor repair done to my son's car under statutory warranty. I bought the car in Melbourne, and the dealer agreed to repair it under statutory warranty if I took it to an authorised repairer. I tried to take it to the local Ford dealer, but the Servicing Manager said the boss told them they're not to do any statutory warranty repairs for people that have bought cars elsewhere. I asked him if the boss knew how much money the service department made, rather than just the sales department. He just rolled his eyes and said he would do the job if he could. I took it to another repairer who fixed it in a day, rang the Melbourne dealer and got paid over the phone.

[markTHEblake]

Thinking of getting rid of my C Class, taking the Disco and putting the wife in some sort of people mover type vehicle.

This would work and easy to get the golf clubs in and out of.

[Gammon]

I've had a Pulsar and a Focus both ran well. Test drive a couple of models, make sure as a golfer you are happy with the boot space. My wife bought a Cruze a couple of years ago, I wasn't keen as I read about an unreliable car that was underpowered. Anyway 2 years later its been the best car we have ever had and the only one of her cars I actually enjoy driving (manual 1.6 turbo), maybe she got lucky.
People in the know reckon Korean is the way to go for lower priced vehicles the last few years.
As for myself I'm thinking the new Mustang for my midlife crisis but apparently its a year's wait as this years allocation was sold before the first one landed.... maybe a second hand option next year.

[jimandr]

When I turned up for the test drive, he had a Pulsar there, so I drove it. The Cerato was also there, so I drove it as well. The Cerato was narrowly the better car, but not by 3k, so a Pulsar was the choice. I specified the colour I wanted, and the sales guy said he would get to work and find one, but (ominously as it turned out) he told me that Nissan weren't easy to deal with, and it may take a while.

He calls me a week later to tell me he can't "find" a 2015 plate in fiery red (red cars go faster and pull the chicks, so I'm told), so I tell him to widen the search to a few other colours. A week later he calls again and says he can't any 2015 plate Pulsars at all. By this time, my car has been damaged in a minor accident as detailed in the Piss You Off Thread, so the goalposts have changed again from my side as well. He offers me a 2016 plate at 17990. Still a great deal, but because I no longer have a car to trade in, I can't go ahead until I know whether my current vehicle is going to be repaired or written off.

There is much more to the story. But I'll pause it there for the moment, and pose this question to anyone who has kept reading this long.

It seems to me that I have become a victim of smallish regional centre syndrome. No competition, so they don't try very hard because they know you can't just go to the next suburb to the other dealer. Have any of the guys who live away from the Big Smoke noticed the same when trying to buy a new car?

Here is Chapter 2 of my new car story. For those who don't like reading long posts, here is the happy ending: today I took delivery of a gunmetal grey Kia Cerato. I have a car again!

OK. The longer version starts now. Last Friday I had had enough of not having a car for transport, so I decided to bite the bullet and place an order. I turn up at the Kia and Nissan dealership, tell him the full story, and tell him I won't wait for my damaged car to be assessed, I'll place an order for a 2016 Pulsar now. The guy shakes his head and says I don't think I can get it here before the end of the month, and they (Nissan) won't give you the deal after the end of the month (which is 9 days away). But I'll see what I can do.

He calls me back on Saturday morning, most apologetic and says Nissan won't come to the party. Minimum of two weeks before delivery, maybe longer. For me, it is time for plan b and plan c. I give him two options to pursue. A Pulsar in another colour that isn't white, or as a final resort, I'll look at the Cerato options.

Bottom line is that the salesman was a nice guy, and seemed genuine, but he didn't want to sell a Pulsar. It was almost getting to Python's Cheeseshop level about Pulsar's, but he got back to me the same Saturday and told me that he had a Kia Cerato available. I'm still desperate for a car, and I liked the Cerato anyway, so Cerato it was. And finally some good news, the original promise date was a week, then it went forward and eventually arrived and got registered today, three days better than promised.

To follow up on points raised by a couple of posters in reply. One of the dilemmas of living in a regional town is that I feel a bit obligated to support the service providers in that town if I can. If everyone in Ballina buys their cars in Tweed Heads or even Brisbane, the car yard closes down, and everyone loses. So I didn't want to do that, and because I had no means of transport, I couldn't anyway. But if I could've got to Tweed Heads, I would have at least made a phone call.

I had a look at the Car Brokers web site. It looks too good to be true. Maybe it works in the major cities (which probably includes the Gold Coast), but I just can't see how they would promise free home delivery 250k's away or even more. It is much too late now, but if I had thought of it a month ago, I may have made enquiries anyway.

Last point. Regarding the original issue of keep or update. My Tiida experience shows that after a certain point cars don't depreciate much further if they are in good condition and run well. So I'd say if you are keeping a car longer than five years, you then keep it until it dies (or someone damages it).

Thanks for reading.

[Johnny Canuck]

Here is Chapter 2 of my new car story. For those who don't like reading long posts, here is the happy ending: today I took delivery of a gunmetal grey Kia Cerato. I have a car again!

OK. The longer version starts now. Last Friday I had had enough of not having a car for transport, so I decided to bite the bullet and place an order. I turn up at the Kia and Nissan dealership, tell him the full story, and tell him I won't wait for my damaged car to be assessed, I'll place an order for a 2016 Pulsar now. The guy shakes his head and says I don't think I can get it here before the end of the month, and they (Nissan) won't give you the deal after the end of the month (which is 9 days away). But I'll see what I can do.

He calls me back on Saturday morning, most apologetic and says Nissan won't come to the party. Minimum of two weeks before delivery, maybe longer. For me, it is time for plan b and plan c. I give him two options to pursue. A Pulsar in another colour that isn't white, or as a final resort, I'll look at the Cerato options.

Bottom line is that the salesman was a nice guy, and seemed genuine, but he didn't want to sell a Pulsar. It was almost getting to Python's Cheeseshop level about Pulsar's, but he got back to me the same Saturday and told me that he had a Kia Cerato available. I'm still desperate for a car, and I liked the Cerato anyway, so Cerato it was. And finally some good news, the original promise date was a week, then it went forward and eventually arrived and got registered today, three days better than promised.

To follow up on points raised by a couple of posters in reply. One of the dilemmas of living in a regional town is that I feel a bit obligated to support the service providers in that town if I can. If everyone in Ballina buys their cars in Tweed Heads or even Brisbane, the car yard closes down, and everyone loses. So I didn't want to do that, and because I had no means of transport, I couldn't anyway. But if I could've got to Tweed Heads, I would have at least made a phone call.

I had a look at the Car Brokers web site. It looks too good to be true. Maybe it works in the major cities (which probably includes the Gold Coast), but I just can't see how they would promise free home delivery 250k's away or even more. It is much too late now, but if I had thought of it a month ago, I may have made enquiries anyway.

Last point. Regarding the original issue of keep or update. My Tiida experience shows that after a certain point cars don't depreciate much further if they are in good condition and run well. So I'd say if you are keeping a car longer than five years, you then keep it until it dies (or someone damages it).

Thanks for reading.

The regional dealership is a very interesting model.

In general, even more so in WA, they are some of the better performing dealerships in relation to manufacturer targets than dealerships in the big cities.

They can stand firmer on their pricing as people don't like to travel. My company contracted a research firm last year to survey car purchaser habits and the data found that 50% of people wouldn't travel more than 10km from home or office, take it out to 20km and it is 71%!

The other factor is that people in regional areas talk. Gut the prices for one person, you'll be doing it for everyone. If you do for one person and don't for the next, you are setting up for disaster when that person finds out they didn't get the same deal and you lose future business.

Vehicle supply is Aus is crap altogether. You either wait for them to arrive by boat, or hope that the dealership you are at can arrange a stock trade with another dealership the majority of the time.

Nissan should have come to the party, but they have a rep, especially when it comes to warranty issues, as being one of the worst in the business.

This is also surprising because their numbers are terrible this year.

I have driven both the Cerato and the Pulsar and I think the Cerato is a much better vehicle by a long way.

[3Puttpete]

Cool kids drive Kias Jim. 7 years, unlimited km, free roadside assistance. How can you go wrong?

[markTHEblake]

I had a look at the Car Brokers web site. It looks too good to be true. Maybe it works in the major cities (which probably includes the Gold Coast), but I just can't see how they would promise free home delivery 250k's away or even more. It is much too late now, but if I had thought of it a month ago, I may have made enquiries anyway. .

I have used car brokers before, it is not too good to be true. It is just too good. Distance is irrelevent, and you Won't know which dealer is supplying the car until the deal is done. The car broker is not paying for the delivery of the car. So when they tender for the car,only the fleet managers that want to drive the car there will make you an offer. My nephew used to work as a "fleet managers assistant" sometimes he would deliver a car 300km away, Sometimes the fleet manager went with him. Or he would grab anyone else that looked like they were not busy On my last deal, the car was supplied from Brisbane, and the fleet manager personally delivered it. There would be 6 ford dealers closer to me. even better if you get an offer from the broker, is to use that as leverage to get a better deal from the dealer. Cost you nothing to try

[3Puttpete]

How does the broker get paid?

[goughy]

I remember after my first year at uni I was applying for jobs (for interview practise) and applied for a job at the local SAAB dealer as, I guess a detailer (car washer) but a requirement was an open license and I may be called on to drive cars to different towns.

There isn't a car we've owned that hasn't ended up on the scrap heap when finished. We don't care about them much, as long as it's big enough for our needs and has aircon it's a car.

I find that we are the opposite of most people I see in my work. Yes I've been to many many customers who live in nice houses with mercs and beemers etc park in the driveway. But I've been to plenty of ordinary houses, even dumps, with near new commodores, pajero's, lancers, whatever parked there. And I wonder how they afford those cars if that's the best house they can own/rent? We are the complete opposite. Our cars are basically dumps; they work fine etc, but I don't think many houses like ours would have our cars in the driveway. I'm spending more cash on my yard than I've ever spent on a car.

[jimandr]

The regional dealership is a very interesting model.

In general, even more so in WA, they are some of the better performing dealerships in relation to manufacturer targets than dealerships in the big cities.

They can stand firmer on their pricing as people don't like to travel. My company contracted a research firm last year to survey car purchaser habits and the data found that 50% of people wouldn't travel more than 10km from home or office, take it out to 20km and it is 71%!

The other factor is that people in regional areas talk. Gut the prices for one person, you'll be doing it for everyone. If you do for one person and don't for the next, you are setting up for disaster when that person finds out they didn't get the same deal and you lose future business.

Vehicle supply is Aus is crap altogether. You either wait for them to arrive by boat, or hope that the dealership you are at can arrange a stock trade with another dealership the majority of the time.

Nissan should have come to the party, but they have a rep, especially when it comes to warranty issues, as being one of the worst in the business.

This is also surprising because their numbers are terrible this year.

I have driven both the Cerato and the Pulsar and I think the Cerato is a much better vehicle by a long way.

Some good points there, JC, and I think you are spot on about people talking to each other about prices.

I think Nissan may have given up on the Pulsar. They lost their spot in the small car market with the Tiida, and can't get it back. They still have a 3 year warranty, when 5 years is the new standard, and Kia, thankfully, offer 7 years.

One slightly good thing about the process is that they didn't even attempt to push any extras on me like extended warranty and paint protection, etc. I really hate it when they try to do that.

[Yossarian]

You should buy an MX-5.