AT 100 Metres from green what do you think of

[Toolish]

Ahh ... a physics professor with interest in Asian politics ...

I read in "Search for the Perfect Swing" (Cochran and Stobbs) that amount of backspin has little to do with grooves (ie. friction of the club face) from a clean lie, for a full shot. I think they used an experimental grooveless club for this experiment. They were a bit baffled by this result. According to the force vectors (normal force and tangential/friction force), backspin had to be caused by friction.

So what causes backspin if it isn't friction?

Yuo don't need grooves for friction. Think of a car racing tyre, no grooves there and relies on friction for the car to handle. Two surfaces in contact will have friction, infact off a 100% clean lie a club with no grooves may spin the ball more as it has more surface area.

There has been some research lately to suggest the edges of the grooves may hel with spin, hence the Wishon Micro which has more smaller grooves.

But, indeed the draw = topsin myth is just plain wrong.

[Jono]

Yuo don't need grooves for friction. Think of a car racing tyre, no grooves there and relies on friction for the car to handle. Two surfaces in contact will have friction, infact off a 100% clean lie a club with no grooves may spin the ball more as it has more surface area.

There has been some research lately to suggest the edges of the grooves may hel with spin, hence the Wishon Micro which has more smaller grooves.

But, indeed the draw = topsin myth is just plain wrong.

For the same sort of surface, grooved face has more friction than grooveless. No?

[Toolish]

If it was a 100% clean lie (tight fairway or hardpan) then I would think a grooveless but heavily milled face would get the most spin. I don't have anything to back that up, just my opinion. A face with a lot of really thin grooves tightly spaces may work even better, but not sure on the legalities of grooves though.

But as soon as there is any grass there you need bigger grooves to give it somewhere to go, again like grooves in car tyres and water.

[markTHEblake]

Thats being proven in Tests - grooves only help when water and/or grass is in between the clubface.

So why does a snazzy new lob wedge spin more. Placebo effect, or is it with such a lofted club its almost impossible to hit the ball cleanly?

[Fishman Dan]

Pick first club that comes into your head, then pull the next longer club and put a controlled swing on it.

- Stuart Appleby.

[Jarro]

Pick first club that comes into your head, then pull the next longer club and put a controlled swing on it.

- Stuart Appleby.

Pretty handy advice that

[Fishman Dan]

I taught him everything I know

[brad]

First thought would be self congratulations on a tee shot in the middle of the fairway. Second though would be "How did I do that?". Third would be 9 iron since it goes 130-135 metres. Then I'd smack it in the general direction of the green.

Probably top it or hit it in the water, but that would be OK since I hit such a great shot off the tee

[virge666]

For the same sort of surface, grooved face has more friction than grooveless. No?

You have to remember that the ball is quite soft. and when compressed will squish into the grooves of the club, you can see the marks on the ball after the shot - especially with new clubs or PING's.

The squish provides more grip on the ball and hence more spin.

But the main role of grooves is to disperse the crap that gets between the ball and club, like water and grass.

Much like Toolish's idea of tyres . . . slicks have good grip - in the dry only.

The debate on groove types / sizes / shapes will be one for a long time...

[3oneday]

Is nothing sacred ????

[Scottt]

I'd punch an eight iron off my back foot to promote a draw ballflight to hold the wind. I'd start it in the right centre of the green and be aiming to land it centre of the green and let it release up a touch.

[Topper4000]

Adam,

Being a physics professor, I have to disagree.

A draw DOES NOT create top spin.

A draw shot means the loft on the club is less than if hit square. It create right to left spin, but still predominantly back spin. The resulting less loft creates a lower ball flight, and therefore, les chance of the ball stopping.

If a ball was hit with topspin, it wouldn't even fly 50m without nose diving to the ground. Think of a tennis ball hit with topspin. It dives down.

The backspin on a draw shot is what keeps it in flight.

Better check up on your physic professor,

It will create a tilted axis, A golf ball will not spin in two axis.

[virge666]

AT 100 Metres from green what do you think of

Boobs.

[3oneday]

Hopefully not belonging to the guys you are playing with !!!

[virge666]

Hopefully not belonging to the guys you are playing with !!!

If it is cold enough . . .

[goughy]

What would I do!

I'd be thinking who put that f'n lake in front of my green. What's that bunker doing on the left side and why is the hole placed so close to it? Is that a drop off over the back of the green? Hey, that's an unusual coloured catapillar! Did anyone see where my ball finished?

[markTHEblake]

thats classic

and probably wondering if its milk or bread you had to get on the way home.

[virge666]

Did anyone see where my ball finished?