AT 100 Metres from green what do you think of

[AndyP]

I can't see how a 'one size fits all' approach can be used.

Surely it's better for the golfer to go with their more confident and comfortable option, like Moe's example.

[Webster]

Adam, agree with most of what you are saying (it agree's with most of what I am saying) except for the choice of club to go 110 m. The green is 36 metres long and its 100 to the front, so I would argue that the choice of club should be one which will carry at least 120 metres, thereby taking the front water out of play allowing for a complete mishit (with a cross wind).

A shot that caries 120 metres still has 16 metres margin to the back of the green. A shot that carries 110 metres still leave 22 metres to the hole - 3 putt range - take the extra club.

[addamsmith]

In no way does one shot work for everybody. With a senario situation stat's are the best way to check the best result. I know people have a favourite shot and play it alot. What I am saying is if you hit 100 balls with a pitch wedge with a full swing and you hit 100 balls with a punch shot. the ball with the full swing will go higher and land softer and stop quicker. The ball from the punch shot will come in hotter, lower and have a better chance of releasing thru the green.

Today I went to the practice range and hit 50 balls with a full swing with the PW and the balls all landed on the green but one that was fat.
I then hit 50 balls with a punch shot and only 34 stayed on the green.
Also the full shots were much closer to the hitting area where the punch shot was much more over the green with a few pulls and pushes.

Moe I do beleive if someone practices one type of shot a lot it becomes there shot and I do beleive that is what you have been able to perfect in your game and I praise you for that.

My NO response is one to help people to improve consistancy in ones game.

I am not saying you are wrong and I am right , what i am saying is if you take 100 people and ask them to hit a punch shot only maybe 5 % could do it properly. the other 95% would not be able to stop it on the green.

Next chance you all get try the 50 ball punch/full swing and have a look at the results and let me know what happened.

Also one of my good friend's who plays off 3 hits a punch shot all the time and loves it.

I have spend $1000's of dollars with top coaches and all of the things I give to you guy's you can take it in for free and maybe it will help, I am happy to help were I can. That senario was one of many that I did on course management. And any one of you know golf is 95% mental.
Thanks Addam

[Moe Norman]

i'm just wondering why you want it to go so high with a 20km/h wind?

and why you want it to stop quickly when you are flying it 110m to a pin 136m away?

[addamsmith]

Hi Moe
The reason I beleive you want to get the ball in the air with a 20km wind is because of percentages and it is aimed at a majority 95%. If you hit to the middle of the green even with the wind and go for a 110m shot most guys and girls don't get back spin and most people i teach when hitting a 9 iron 110m the ball releases at least 5 more meters so that puts you in the middle of the green. 136 to the back and 130 to the flag.
You or I might be able to spin the ball back but most canot do that.
Also with that 20km cross wind, It want affect a good strike as far as distance it would move the ball about 10 mtr at the worst.

If you Said punch it to the center of the green.
better
But again a punch shot is a lower percentage shot, than a full smooth swing. So the idea of a punch if the wind was into you face, to the center of the green would be a great shot to play, but the wind is coming across not into so there is no need for a punch shot.
95% of punch shots are to keep the ball under the wind when the wind is into your face.

Just remember I did not say no to a punch shot, I said it is the shot to play into the wind because with a 20km head wind that would be at least a 2 club wind. Most players dont check the wind they just look at the distance , grab a club and swing. So in that senario the Punch would be a better shot.

Addam

[Moe Norman]

a punch at the flag with a 20km crosswind is effectively at the middle of the green.

A full shot at the heart of the green in a 20km cross wind is effectivley aiming to miss the green right.

[addamsmith]

Moe
What you are not uderstanding here is a punch to the flag is a higher a high percentage shot because of the type of shot it is. Unless you are tiger woods and can stiff it at the pin every time, there is no way that most people can stop the ball, even if you hit them straight the from to the back depertion rate would be much higher than a left to right from a full shot for the average person and please remember this senario is based on the average person.
The ball would not miss the green for a 110m shot with a 20km wind near as much as you think it would ( based on the wind factor), Also in the senario the idea there is looking for hazards which I added front and rear hazard. I did have No hazard to the right. So would that be the place to miss the green. This senario and even military senario's are base purely on statistics. Most players Can hit a full shot and not a punch shot.
If the avarage player hit a full shot and missed the green to the right won't that be a better statistic than short or long.
Thanks Addam

[Moe Norman]

Yes, but if you want to land it in the middle of the green with a 20km wind with a high lofted club, you need to start it at the flag.

with 6m of room to the left of the flag, being 'shortsided' doesn't seem particularly worrying either.

I will agree that a punch isn't the preferred shot for everyone, but I still believe that a full shot should be aimed to at least the left portion of the green for the average player.

I agree that looking for the best place to miss is good strategy, but I don't subscribe to aiming to miss it there!

If you want to use statistics, statistically most golfers miss is a slice, in this wind that means serious trouble.

[Boonie]

It completely depends on your level of skill. Course management can never be black and white, because people have different strengths and weknesses.

Addam is clearly giving his advice for about an 18 handicap (who doesn't 3-putt from 50ft ). A low marker will not be wanting a 50ft putt with a 9-iron in their hand - and rightly so.

Personally, I'm with Jack. I want to hit it 125 metres, which is a perfect 9-iron distance for me, and leave myself about 18-21ft away. I'll hit a full 9-iron that I make sure I release on fully so it holds into the wind a bit. Aim point will probably be slightly right of the pin, but not much.

[Coffs_Hacker]

I'd like to hit the green --- anywhere ----

[oz]

Since long is bad, I'd take the 9 iron, playing it to fly a little lower, and potentially release some on landing. Plenty of green short of the pin, so even if it grabs on the green, a birdie putt from the centre of the green wouldn't be the end of the world. For line, I would play it pretty much on line with the flag (or a few feet left), allowing any wind effect to push it towards the middle of the green.






Then I'd wake up to find I had been daydreaming, and had just made a triple from the middle of the fairway....

[Bruce]

I have essentially zero ability to pick distances so if they don't have marked sprinklers I am probably screwed anyway. Assuming they do they will be telling me I am 120m to the middle of the green. The water at the front will have me playing an 8I (going long is a rare miss). I will aim to get the ball to the middle or fattest part of the green I can see and so my best guess on the wind strength will be how far to the side I aim.

I'm only making about 1/3 GIRs on my best days - so I will aim to give myself the best chance of making one.

[Ducky]

That's a tough one, but I would have to lay up short of the water for a pitch and a putt.



Just kidding, I can't pitch or putt.

[BrisWesty]

As you approach the ball what is the first thing you think of and do.
What club are you going to play
What shot are you goingto play.
And why.

Getting laid. Well you did want an honest answer didn't you? But we're meant to be talking about golf here.

What do I do? Well I hit PW about 100, 9I about 115, 8I up to 130, and 7I about 140. I don't get much backspin, so I'd probably hit a full 8I or easy 7I (most likely the 7) to get pin high or so at the flag and let the ball drift in flight towards the centre of the green for a simple 2 putt par.

Couldn't be fagged attacking the hole, with that much trouble close by.

[Grunt]

Not sure if this is the right place to ask this question.
Why am I having so much trouble from 100m & in? Hitting my irons & woods so well, but get inside 100 and then blow it with either a shot of too hard or too soft. Not a bad shot just missed judged ones. It really getting to me. Has got to a stage of laying up outside 100m on purpose.

[Moe Norman]

practice it so you know your yardages for each 10m gap under 100m

[Grunt]

Yeah thought that was it Moe. Hard to get practice at range for this type of shot as the markers are not real accurate at many of them.

[Moe Norman]

easier said than done of course.

I am woeful from the 40-60m range. Not too bad from 100m, its a half swing with PW and 80-90m are a full 54* less than 80m and I'm guessing.

[Arnie K]

Hell with my handicap I'd probably get two shots so...... Play it short of the water with a sand wedge and then chip over close to the hole to one putt...If I had a decent putter. You don't have to win by much to secure the drinks!

[Dennis]

For the Guy's that want to draw the ball into the flag

NO
Why
What does a draw do? creates top spin.

Adam,

Being a physics professor, I have to disagree.

A draw DOES NOT create top spin.

A draw shot means the loft on the club is less than if hit square. It create right to left spin, but still predominantly back spin. The resulting less loft creates a lower ball flight, and therefore, les chance of the ball stopping.

If a ball was hit with topspin, it wouldn't even fly 50m without nose diving to the ground. Think of a tennis ball hit with topspin. It dives down.

The backspin on a draw shot is what keeps it in flight.

[Jono]

Adam,

Being a physics professor, I have to disagree.

Ahh ... a physics professor with interest in Asian politics ...

I read in "Search for the Perfect Swing" (Cochran and Stobbs) that amount of backspin has little to do with grooves (ie. friction of the club face) from a clean lie, for a full shot. I think they used an experimental grooveless club for this experiment. They were a bit baffled by this result. According to the force vectors (normal force and tangential/friction force), backspin had to be caused by friction.

So what causes backspin if it isn't friction?

[Shaneo]

Hi Guy's and Gals
I have to ask this Question,
Let's have some fun here.

Senario
Okay you are on a great Par 4 350m
You have bombed it right in the Middle of the fairway.
The flag is tucked up in the back left side of the green, 6 mtrs from the left side,4 mtrs from the back edge.
There is water in front on the green.
So complete water carry is needed to get the ball on the green,
Wind is blowing from the left to the right about 20kmh so it is quiet windy.
100 mtrs to the front of the Green. and the green is 36 mtrs from the front to the back of the green. so to fly the green it is 136 mtrs.
Behind the green is a big Paddock full of brown snakes with thick grass, so if your long your ball is as good as lost.

As you approach the ball what is the first thing you think of and do.
What club are you going to play
What shot are you goingto play.
And why.

I'd be hitting a PW
reason being is that i know i'll comfortably get over the water and i know it will be short of the back.
another reason is for control, i know that if i hit the ball at the left edge of green with that wind, 9 times out of 10 (but hopefully 10) i'll hit it, then its a couple of putts at worst.
also think, if you're trying to shape a shot into that strong wind, you could over do it or totally miss the shot i.e - set up for a draw and block it.
i've been told wise words in the past you only swing at 75% when wind is a factor. if you need to take an extra club then take it.

[Iain]

So what causes backspin if it isn't friction?

Loft....

[Moe Norman]

friction and compression.

[Peter]

So what causes backspin if it isn't friction?

Shiny new clubs. After 3 or 4 rounds you need to replace them if you want to get backspin.