For the rules geeks

[Maxbxl]

Here's a fun situation I thought of the other day:

Player is playing a stroke comp.
On a par 3 he tees up his ball in the teeing area, hits it and holes it (in the correct hole). He marks his score down as a bogey 4. How?

No air swings were made.
He was playing his own ball.
He did not get penalized for slow play or touching another players equipment.

Hint: there are many ways this outcome is possible.

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[sms316]

He lives in FNQ and didn’t want to lose a shot from his handicap?

[petethepilot]

He is a plus handicaper?

[Dotty]

The proshop wouldn't print him a paper card and he is too computer illiterate to use MiScore properly.

p.s. I was going to say he was wearing a MAGA cap, but that would have '-1' submitted as the score on that hole.

[ParkRoyal]

Original shot from wrong tees and causing the ball to move on 2nd swing.

[Maxbxl]

Original shot from wrong tees and causing the ball to move on 2nd swing.

Not sure I follow, but ball played from wrong tees must be played from the correct tees incurring two shot penalty. All shots played in the ball from the wrong tee do not count towards the player's score.

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[sms316]

Chat GPT for the win.

That's a great golf rules puzzle! Since the player didn't take any air swings and wasn't penalized for slow play or outside influence, there must be some rules-based reason why the hole-in-one didn't count as a 1. Here are a few possible explanations:
1. Wrong Teeing Area (Rule 6.1b)

• The player teed off outside the teeing area (too far in front, or from another set of tees).
• Under stroke play, this carries a two-stroke penalty and requires a replay from the correct teeing area.
• So, after re-teeing correctly and making another stroke (which went in), his total would be 4 (2 penalty strokes + 1 stroke replayed + 1 holed shot).

2. Stroke Played from the Wrong Ball (Rule 6.3c)

• The player mistakenly played the wrong ball from the tee.
• Realizing this before teeing off on the next hole, he must correct the mistake.
• He returns to the tee, replays the correct ball with a 2-stroke penalty, and holes out.
• Score: 4 (2-stroke penalty + 1 replayed tee shot + 1 holed shot).

3. Stroke Played from Outside the Tee Markers, But Not Replayed (Disqualification)

• In stroke play, failing to correct a teeing error before teeing off on the next hole results in disqualification.
• If the player mistakenly thinks it’s only a two-stroke penalty and writes down a 4, he has actually signed for the wrong score (leading to a DQ if found out later).

4. Wrong Green Stroke (Rule 13.1f)

• The player teed off, but the ball accidentally landed on another green.
• Instead of taking free relief, he played it from there (which is a two-stroke penalty).
• Assuming he somehow holed the shot from there, the score would be 4 (1 tee shot + 2 penalty strokes + 1 holed shot).

5. Lost Ball After the Tee Shot (Rule 18.2)

• The player believed his tee shot was lost, so he re-teed and holed his second attempt.
• But later, someone found the original ball in bounds, meaning the second ball was played under stroke and distance.
• Score: 4 (1 original shot + 1 penalty stroke + 1 re-tee + 1 holed shot).

Any of these scenarios could explain why a hole-in-one ended up as a bogey 4! Fun thought experiment!

[Maxbxl]

Not bad... But as sometimes happens ChatGPT is wrong in nearly all of the scenarios it provided. I'll explain:

1. Played from wrong tee, as explained in rule 6.1 the penalty is 2x strikes, must be corrected and any strikes played before the correction do not count. So assuming he played from wrong tee, goes to correct and aces from the correct tee that is a total of 3 (not 4 as chatgpt seems to think)

2. The exact same applies to this scenario where playing a wrong ball must be corrected, the penalty is two strokes and all strokes made in the wrong ball do not count. So assuming he noticed, corrected went back to the tee, and aced that is still a 3 and not a 4



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[Maxbxl]

3. Sure he could mistakenly write down a 4 but was in fact DQ'... I'll add that the score of 4 in my scenario is legit and not a DQ

4. the premises states he holed out from his tee not another green.

5. That scenario would lead to a 3 and not a 4.


Don't trust everything from chatGPT



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[Dotty]

And Chat GPT is wrong in every case.

As per the OP description, the ball was teed up from in the teeing area (negating 1. and 3.)
And playing his own ball (negating 2.)
And holes it in the correct hole (negating 4.)

As for 5., the original ball is lost, then as soon as the second ball is played (even if it is found later) and the score will be only 3 for the hole (original+penalty+hole-out).


p.s. I was originally thinking along the lines of too many clubs in the bag, but that would be a two stroke penalty per hole (also scoring a 3).

My best answer is that it was the ghost of Roberto Di Vicenzo, and he didn't learn from his mistake at the 1968 US Masters.

[Maxbxl]

And Chat GPT is wrong in every case.

As per the OP description, the ball was teed up from in the teeing area (negating 1. and 3.)
And playing his own ball (negating 2.)
And holes it in the correct hole (negating 4.)

As for 5., the original ball is lost, then as soon as the second ball is played (even if it is found later) and the score will be only 3 for the hole (original+penalty+hole-out).


p.s. I was originally thinking along the lines of too many clubs in the bag, but that would be a two stroke penalty per hole (also scoring a 3).

My best answer is that it was the ghost of Roberto Di Vicenzo, and he didn't learn from his mistake at the 1968 US Masters.

Nice one Dotty!

But no, he did in fact write the correct score, a bogey 4.

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[Yossarian]

What on earth is going on here.

[PeteyD]

Second ball played (as above) and it bounced off some owned equipment before holing out - eg shank into gof buggy to hole out.

[Maxbxl]

Second ball played (as above) and it bounced off some owned equipment before holing out - eg shank into gof buggy to hole out.

Not a bad idea but rule 11a says there's no penalty for a ball in motion hitting equipment.

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[Johnny Canuck]

He teed up, had a swing, didn’t make it out of the teeing area.

Re-teed at no penalty.

Did this three times and holed the 4th attempt.


Also, he teed up, ball didn’t leave the teeing area.

He re-teed, discovered he had 15 clubs and holes it.

[Johnny Canuck]

Second scenario could also be changed to asking what club a fellow player used instead of there being a 15th club.

I also like the FNQ response.

[Maxbxl]

Well done Johnny! Both of these scenarios are valid!

I have some other scenarios that would also lead to the same result:

1) player hits his first OB, re trees, shanks it into a nearby tree where it bounces back at him and ends up on the teeing area. He tees up the ball again and holes it.

2) players Duffs it into nearby brush, his first attempt at getting it out only gets him deeper in the brush, he takes his medicine and chips backwards back out to safety where the ball ends up on the tee box. He tees it and holes it for a 4.

3) player hits a laser straight at the front pin, it comes up a shade short and spins back off the front into a nasty little pot bunker. No way he can get this out he decides to use the new 2019 rule drop back on the line outside the bunker. He wants a full SW swing and finds a spot in the line that will give him that yardage... It happens to be on the tee box. He drops it, then tees it then aces for a 4. (Yes he could have and should have decided to elect to replay his last shot instead of back on the line relief for the same result but with one less penalty stroke).


The aim of this little scenario was really to highlight a little known rule that basically says that if your ball is at rest in your teeing area for the hole, you can lift, clean (even replace I think), move it anywhere in the teeing area and tee the ball up! Doesn't happen often but fun one to know!

Once again: well done Johnny!

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[AndyP]

The aim of this little scenario was really to highlight a little known rule that basically says that if your ball is at rest in your teeing area for the hole, you can lift, clean (even replace I think), move it anywhere in the teeing area and tee the ball up! Doesn't happen often but fun one to know!

I did not know this. This could come in handy for some of my useless playing partners.

[Johnny Canuck]

Well done Johnny! Both of these scenarios are valid!

I have some other scenarios that would also lead to the same result:

1) player hits his first OB, re trees, shanks it into a nearby tree where it bounces back at him and ends up on the teeing area. He tees up the ball again and holes it.

2) players Duffs it into nearby brush, his first attempt at getting it out only gets him deeper in the brush, he takes his medicine and chips backwards back out to safety where the ball ends up on the tee box. He tees it and holes it for a 4.

3) player hits a laser straight at the front pin, it comes up a shade short and spins back off the front into a nasty little pot bunker. No way he can get this out he decides to use the new 2019 rule drop back on the line outside the bunker. He wants a full SW swing and finds a spot in the line that will give him that yardage... It happens to be on the tee box. He drops it, then tees it then aces for a 4. (Yes he could have and should have decided to elect to replay his last shot instead of back on the line relief for the same result but with one less penalty stroke).


The aim of this little scenario was really to highlight a little known rule that basically says that if your ball is at rest in your teeing area for the hole, you can lift, clean (even replace I think), move it anywhere in the teeing area and tee the ball up! Doesn't happen often but fun one to know!

Once again: well done Johnny!

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I actually learned that rule not too long ago myself.

Some very useful info.

[Maxbxl]

I haven't been in this forum in years. Did I post in the right place? I have some other fun scenarios to share for those interested.

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[3Puttpete]

I actually learned that rule not too long ago myself.

Some very useful info.

This.

It’s only a matter of time until I need to use it.

[PeterCool]

He lives in FNQ and didn’t want to lose a shot from his handicap?

Or the club champs is being played in a few weeks and he didn’t want to lose a shot from his handicap?

[PeterCool]

He teed up, had a swing, didn’t make it out of the teeing area.

Re-teed at no penalty.

Did this three times and holed the 4th attempt.


Also, he teed up, ball didn’t leave the teeing area.

He re-teed, discovered he had 15 clubs and holes it.

Ive never checked someones bag to count clubs.

Outside of pennant, would this happen? Someone checking?