Handicap system disadvantages low markers?

[virge666]

Play par. That’s a low markers’ game.

Quite simply the greatest game in the world, Fast, Simple and brutal. I god damn love this format.

"Dark Souls" in the Golf Universe.

L O V E - I T !!

[LeftyHoges]

The other downside is we play off front tees, with no slope adjustments, so the variance is expanded again.

Exsqueeze me?

[virge666]

Exsqueeze me?

The powers that run the group have dictated this as "Too Hard".

So - yeah.. if we turn up to the South Coast, they put the group of 24 off the front tees. Like Pensioner yellow front tees.

Endless 280m Par 4's and 110m Par 3's. We get a chance on the 420-430m Par 5's, but they have worked out they can hit 5i, 5i, and have wedge in. I have to birdie it to get a square.

You can sort of see the issue - i dont want to lose the lower markers from the social group, but it is so one sided unless the higher marker has 28-30 points.

[WBennett]

I know it sounds like that - but the numbers back it up. We can compete, sort of, in our grades.. but we cant compete with a 15-20 marker.

i went all ADHD on the score cards and the basics with a MATCH PLAY index. for a 5 marker vs a 15 marker with the SAME stableford points for the day. The higher marker wins on the 15,16 or 17th hole. I downloaded data from 4 comps including front and back tees. 51 players.. low marker won 3 matches, high marker won the other 48.

i need a way we can play matchplay, and it has to be matchplay as it is a ryder cup sort of format for the weekend, that i can get the 5-6 low markers a chance in the game, because right now.. all the low markers have to go deep or the high markers have to go spastic.

The other downside is we play off front tees, with no slope adjustments, so the variance is expanded again.

I know it sounds like a low marker having a whinge... but we play 3 games Fri-Sat and Sun. And the single markers are losing almost every single game and the guys have worked out they dont need to hit driver and some are even hitting 5 iron off the tee cause they are almost green side for zero shots if they get 2 shots on a hole.

It is sort of becoming untenable.

Handicaps without adjusting for slope or the tees of the day are not accurate and are a waste of time.

Our 'all handicaps' club matchplay generally gets won by an 8-10 marker, but its always off the back tees.

[rickie prowler]

The powers that run the group have dictated this as "Too Hard". So - yeah.. if we turn up to the South Coast, they put the group of 24 off the front tees. Like Pensioner yellow front tees.Endless 280m Par 4's and 110m Par 3's. We get a chance on the 420-430m Par 5's, but they have worked out they can hit 5i, 5i, and have wedge in. I have to birdie it to get a square.You can sort of see the issue - i dont want to lose the lower markers from the social group, but it is so one sided unless the higher marker has 28-30 points.

"The powers that run the group" are idiots.

[virge666]

"The powers that run the group" are idiots.

They are all 14-16 markers who dont want to lose their advantage.

Also, the fluff in my right pocket knows more about the game than they do.

[rickie prowler]

They are all 14-16 markers who dont want to lose their advantage.Also, the fluff in my right pocket knows more about the game than they do.

I think you need a new social group my friend. Not much social about the guys in charge effectively cheating to maintain an advantage

[Hatchman]

i went all ADHD on the score cards and the basics with a MATCH PLAY index. for a 5 marker vs a 15 marker with the SAME stableford points for the day. The higher marker wins on the 15,16 or 17th hole. I downloaded data from 4 comps including front and back tees. 51 players.. low marker won 3 matches, high marker won the other 48.

Those stats are pretty damming.

You’re got 4 options.
1. Get new friends all low markers
2. Play another format
3. High markers play off 3/4 Hcp but where do you make that cut off?
4. Take it your getting your backside handed to you on a dinner plate by choppers.


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[virge666]

Those stats are pretty damming.

You’re got 4 options.
1. Get new friends all low markers
2. Play another format
3. High markers play off 3/4 Hcp but where do you make that cut off?
4. Take it your getting your backside handed to you on a dinner plate by choppers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

i think 3 and 4 is probably the answer. Thanks for the options lads, appreciate the input.

Might just drink a bit more as well.

[goughy]

3. High markers play off 3/4 Hcp but where do you make that cut off?

Wonder how it would affect things if everyone played of ¾ hc?

[TheGasman]

Yeah you just need to look at some data to find the sweet spot for what % of a low and mid handicap levels out the playing field the most. Apparently ambrose is skewed in the opposite direction and some guy went to a lot of trouble to create a formula that adjusts each groups handicap to balance that out. Of course no one uses it.

[LeftyHoges]

Yeah you just need to look at some data to find the sweet spot for what % of a low and mid handicap levels out the playing field the most. Apparently ambrose is skewed in the opposite direction and some guy went to a lot of trouble to create a formula that adjusts each groups handicap to balance that out. Of course no one uses it.

Not the divided by 6 for 3 players, divided by 8 for 4 players model? Something else?

[AndyP]

Not the divided by 6 for 3 players, divided by 8 for 4 players model? Something else?

Probably this one.
A score to settle - Australian Golf Digest
Logarithmic, baby!

THE 2e METHOD VERSUS OTHERS

The 2e method recommendations are:

4 players: 40%A + 20%B + 10%C + 5%D (total of 75%)

3 players: 45%A + 20%B + 15%C (total of 80%)

2 players: 50%A + 35%B (total of 85%)

where A to D represent low to high handicaps in order.



The traditional handicapping methods in Australia all have a total of 50%. The USGA recommendations were:

4 players: 20%A + 15%B + 10%C + 5%D (total of 50%) – now superseded by WHS (total of 70%)

2 players: 35%A + 15%B (total of 50%) – retained in WHS

[LeftyHoges]

Probably this one.
A score to settle - Australian Golf Digest
Logarithmic, baby!

THE 2e METHOD VERSUS OTHERS

The 2e method recommendations are:

4 players: 40%A + 20%B + 10%C + 5%D (total of 75%)

3 players: 45%A + 20%B + 15%C (total of 80%)

2 players: 50%A + 35%B (total of 85%)

where A to D represent low to high handicaps in order.



The traditional handicapping methods in Australia all have a total of 50%. The USGA recommendations were:

4 players: 20%A + 15%B + 10%C + 5%D (total of 50%) – now superseded by WHS (total of 70%)

2 players: 35%A + 15%B (total of 50%) – retained in WHS

Interesting.

Do they have a formula for the group of 4 x 28 markers who "shoot even par"?

[virge666]

Interesting.
Do they have a formula for the group of 4 x 28 markers who "shoot even par"?

4 Ball Ambrose is such a shit game. 2 Ball is so much better and takes the cheating out.

Wasnt it the Greg Norman classic event thing that they eventually changed due to stupid scores?

[goughy]

The Holden Scramble?

[virge666]

The Holden Scramble?

Thats the one.. people were shooting low 50's and expecting it to be accepted so they changed to 2 ball ambrose and the nonsense stopped.

[Hatchman]

Some were not shy of cheating in front of the club house too. Witnessed what happened to be the winning team of p155ed bogans at Waikerie cheat on the Par 5 18th. Watched them all chip from just short of green high while I was sitting on club house deck having a drink. No one holes out but 1 was tap in from hole.
When they were announced winners and there was a mention of eagle on the 18th I was wtf? Saw no point in saying anything as we all know nothing would happen so I didn’t but it just reaffirmed the comp being labeled Holden Cheatball.

[AndyP]

I've won a couple of 4-man ambroses. You guys are bitter and jealous.

[TheGasman]

Yes I was referencing the formula/article that Andy posted. Maths is a thing!

I agree on 4 ball ambrose though. Pretty boring game after you've played a couple. Just becomes a putting contest. But really its a cheating contest. Whereas two man ambrose is a great format. Still get to play golf and have consequences. But can attack more and enjoy the team work element. Even better is two man ambrose match play.

[Hatchman]

I've won a couple of 4-man ambroses. You guys are bitter and jealous.

Only a couple, pfft lightweight.

[virge666]

https://www.facebook.com/reel/1934155080447095


one of these wins ?

[BrisVegas]

https://www.facebook.com/reel/1934155080447095


one of these wins ?

hahahahah that's so accurate.

[goughy]

https://www.facebook.com/reel/1934155080447095one of these wins ?

That's what it takes for us to win the Leon Treadwell Memorial Golf Day!It's all math.