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  1. #1

    Default 100 year old course having to change layout due to a complaint from house/s?

    My local club, Wynnum, is changing their course layout due to complaints about wayward balls off the 1st tee. The course has existed for over 100 years, and it has just been announced that the Par 4 first will become a Par 3 with immediate effect.

    Granted, there is no way the landlocked course would be approved with tees and greens in their current locations were the course to be built today, but consider that the encroachment of houses has pushed up to the borders of the course boundaries over the past 100 years and not the other way around.

    Does ozgolf think it is reasonable to have to change long-standing course layouts because of a few (mostly one) complainant?

    Personally, people who buy houses backing on to golf courses only to complain about the golf course remind me of people who move into Fortitude Valley for the "vibe" and "culture" only to then make constant noise complaints, such as what happened with the XXXX Brewery as Milton gentrified from industrial to residential.



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    Couldn’t they just build a fence?

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3Puttpete View Post
    Couldn’t they just build a fence?
    Funny you say that. I (somewhat jokingly) suggested they erect one of those highway type fences and block the balls (and their view, and course access) entirely.



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    Quote Originally Posted by henno View Post
    My local club, Wynnum, is changing their course layout due to complaints about wayward balls off the 1st tee. The course has existed for over 100 years, and it has just been announced that the Par 4 first will become a Par 3 with immediate effect.

    Granted, there is no way the landlocked course would be approved with tees and greens in their current locations were the course to be built today, but consider that the encroachment of houses has pushed up to the borders of the course boundaries over the past 100 years and not the other way around.

    Does ozgolf think it is reasonable to have to change long-standing course layouts because of a few (mostly one) complainant?

    Personally, people who buy houses backing on to golf courses only to complain about the golf course remind me of people who move into Fortitude Valley for the "vibe" and "culture" only to then make constant noise complaints, such as what happened with the XXXX Brewery as Milton gentrified from industrial to residential.
    No, but it happens everywhere and it sucks. I played Yowani last week, and the worst hole in Canberra has been shortened by 130m due to houses built 30 years ago getting hit by longer, more wayward drives.

    Coffs Harbour had lost 120m on a par 5 for similar reasons.

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  5. #5

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    Would have thought it'd be easier and cheaper to put in that high netting stuff like Nudgee has along the freeway side.

  6. #6

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    Netting required.

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    Mandurah in WA had to do this exact thing due to one person complaining. Great par 4 first is now an average par 3.

    The person that was making all the noise had moved out before construction was completed.




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    Only allow good golfers onto the course.

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    Club should buy this person a house in the flight path of an airport.
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    Permit him to identify and sue any player hitting balls into his property.

    It should be easy with modern CCTV and facial recognition technology.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyP View Post
    Only allow good golfers onto the course.
    This is one of the downsides of new club/ball technology.
    We all know a 12 marker who can smash it but often 70metres high right.
    Houses that haven’t been threatened in the past are now regularly bombed!

    Wynnum is somewhat challenged for room so hard to remove the threat by good GCA.
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    Jas been an issue for Toowoomba Golf Club up here that's been around for nearly 130yrs. Used to have plenty of space around it, bit as they've sold off land, and areas have been developed they've had issues on some holes. I think the worst has been on the now 3rd hole, which has houses now pretty much all along the boundary, and we're plenty of complaints of balls going into yards. Put up nets, but I think more changes might be happening now again.

    City GC up here I think had been having issues with the houses on the oob of the 18th, and was told last weekend by an old member that they're moving the tee boxes and some trees to allow people to aim less left. Saying that, with my massive pull hooks I haven't been able to get it into anyones yards there.
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  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dotty View Post
    Permit him to identify and sue any player hitting balls into his property.

    It should be easy with modern CCTV and facial recognition technology.
    Not sure if serious, but the club already has this measure in place (minus the CCTV) in so much as players (or more accurately their markers) are "required" to mark down OOB shots and are personally liable for damages.


    Quote Originally Posted by petethepilot View Post
    Wynnum is somewhat challenged for room so hard to remove the threat by good GCA.
    "Somewhat" is an understatement, so I completely agree: GCA in this case is not the answer. The club already does a pretty good job of making a reasonable layout of absolutely stuff all land. There is so very little wiggle room for wholesale changes.



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    I wouldn't be putting my name down if I hit OOB - I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure the golfer is not at fault if they don't intentionally/willfully cause damage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by henno View Post
    Not sure if serious, but the club already has this measure in place (minus the CCTV) in so much as players (or more accurately their markers) are "required" to mark down OOB shots and are personally liable for damages.

    "Somewhat" is an understatement, so I completely agree: GCA in this case is not the answer. The club already does a pretty good job of making a reasonable layout of absolutely stuff all land. There is so very little wiggle room for wholesale changes.
    I remember hitting the front of a council bus (as it came down the road) with a push slice on the par 3 (5th?) about 45 years ago!
    we all did the bolt as the driver gave us a mouthful.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelsey86 View Post
    Would have thought it'd be easier and cheaper to put in that high netting stuff like Nudgee has along the freeway side.
    And then the gronk neighbour complains about losing their view.
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    Quote Originally Posted by henno View Post
    Not sure if serious, but the club already has this measure in place (minus the CCTV) in so much as players (or more accurately their markers) are "required" to mark down OOB shots and are personally liable for damages.
    Originally, semi-serious, drawing a parallel to panel damage in supermarket carparks, caused by drivers failing to stay between the painted boundaries. (And the USGA/R&A 2019 rules changes to encourage more Happy Gilmore inspired people onto the courses.)

    But your reply reminds me of my last club (also nearly 100yo), which had roads bounding 3 sides and numerous vehicle damage claims (despite fence and netting upgrades). The club needed to identify the hitter, but it was no financial impact to the golfer. If the golfer was identified, then Golf Australia paid the excess under the player's insurance component of GA membership. If not identified, then GA says 'no' and the club was out of pocket for the excess (which I half-recall being up to $3k per claim).
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    Those high nets are ****ING expensive.
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    There is legal precedence in Australia. It doesnt matter if the golf course was there first. The judges ruling is that a golf course is responsible for ensuring golf balls remain within their own property boundaries. ( a google could find this ruling, thats how i found it long ago).

    For that reason, every situation like this results on the golf course taking these actions.

    Sadly, so many golf courses original designs used playing lines very close to boundaries, because long ago there was nothing on the other side.
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    The google earth view shows lots of significant trees. In times past, the ball didn’t go so high (and far) with the driver…plus u couldn’t reach the green, so you hit less club leaving a wedge into the green! The houses were therefore reasonably protected.

    The OEM rocket scientists have now put the green in range for most. A par 3 is probably a reasonable result. Change the hole numbering and make it the 10th! It could to be made to play just as hard as the current one.
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    To be honest... i am not sure how a house could be hit there, being uphill and very large trees. Except by those that can carry it 250+ with a slice and thats very few.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeftyHoges View Post
    Those high nets are ****ING expensive.
    And you would probably need 100+ metres of them to catch strays there. The 1st hole and a small part of 2nd are the only holes with houses right up to the course boundary. All the other boundaries are roads, though they get hit fairly regularly as well. Wynnum is a 50 hectare course squeezed into 31Ha, so there aren't a lot of options. The 1st green is surrounded by other hole tees and greens, so ability to move it is limited and any other changes would be very expensive. A new Par 3 tee block is the cheapest immediate option, but it will ruin the 1st as a starting hole.

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    The 9th at Greens Beach Tas was a great hole up until a wayward shot hit a 200000+ motorhome in the adjacent caravan park. Now it plays much shorter and has lost all the joy feelings.

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    Bunbury GC has had to move the tees forward on their third hole, they've put nets and have signage to report any stray balls that clear the fence. The person who is making the complaints is a life member of the club.




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    The Lakes had to change their 12th hole by widening the fairway on the right and pointing the tee further right.

    The problem was that balls were going left over the fence onto incoming traffic on General Holmes Drive which is an 80km an hour road to Sydney airport.

    I believe their insurance company didn’t leave them with an alternative after lots of claims and the obvious danger to oncoming vehicles.
    Last edited by pt73; 1st October 2022 at 12:22 PM.


 

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