LIV Golf

[benno_r]

Going to be slim pickings for the next Pres Cup team.

[Chilled]

Seems that the worst kept secret in golf has just been officially announced

Seems like enough money isn't enough.

[BUSHY]

Seems like enough money isn't enough.

“At a party given by a billionaire on Shelter Island, the late Kurt Vonnegut informs his pal, the author Joseph Heller, that their host, a hedge fund manager, had made more money in a single day than Heller had earned from his wildly popular novel Catch 22 over its whole history. Heller responds, “Yes, but I have something he will never have . . . Enough.”

[goughy]

OK, so I'm late to the party, in that I haven't really taken much notice of the Liv golf stuff. I haven't really taken that much notice of pro stuff for a while.
I get the unhappiness with it being Saudi backed, granted I'm sure there's lots of money from "questionable" sources within pro sport. And I'm the last person to go chasing a buck, granted it's easy to say that when you don't have any. But the "greed" aspect I'm not to worried about, as there's bucket loads of that in the world.

But it seems like there is this opinion out there that this will ruin golf, or something? So I'm really wondering, what is the big issue with another golf tour? Countries all around the world have them. What exactly is it that is bad, or good, with Liv golf and what will it do for golf itself?
I'm not after bitching or fighting, as I have no doubt there are some very different opinions on this. But as my interest in golf peaks I'd kinda like to know the story, good and bad.

[WBennett]

I asked this question a while back. What is the end point? Does Norman and his ego eventually leave LIV, giving a chance at peace between the parties?

Do we see the best field in golf 4 times or less a year at Majors, and thats it? Do the LIV players have to prequalify when their world rankings dive?

Does the worlds most prestigious invitational pull their invites?

[3Puttpete]

OK, so I'm late to the party, in that I haven't really taken much notice of the Liv golf stuff. I haven't really taken that much notice of pro stuff for a while.
I get the unhappiness with it being Saudi backed, granted I'm sure there's lots of money from "questionable" sources within pro sport. And I'm the last person to go chasing a buck, granted it's easy to say that when you don't have any. But the "greed" aspect I'm not to worried about, as there's bucket loads of that in the world.

But it seems like there is this opinion out there that this will ruin golf, or something? So I'm really wondering, what is the big issue with another golf tour? Countries all around the world have them. What exactly is it that is bad, or good, with Liv golf and what will it do for golf itself?
I'm not after bitching or fighting, as I have no doubt there are some very different opinions on this. But as my interest in golf peaks I'd kinda like to know the story, good and bad.

The PGA Tour is pro golf. The money is there because the best golfers are there. The best golfers are there because the money is there.

If the best golfers leave the PGA Tour, does the money leave too? What happens to everyone making money on and from the PGA Tour if the money dries up?

That’s it as far as I can tell.

[goughy]

So it's diluting the ranks?

[WBennett]

So it's diluting the ranks?

Very much so.
Which then hurts the PGA tours TV deals, which have conditions around strength of field built in.
The new product that the tour sort of announced with more 'premium' events such at Bay Hill, Riviera, Memorial and a couple of others will have elevated purses, with stronger fields.

Not sure what that means to the Whogivesashit Invitational presented by 3M in some backwater, but I assume the weaker events will still kick on to allow guys to earn or maintain cards.

[markTHEblake]

what is the big issue with another golf tour?

Two key PGA Tour membership rules
1. Play a minimum of 15 events, that includes all majors
2. must ask permission to play in any non PGA Tour or co-sanctioned event.

#2 is what has irked some of the players for quite a while. Mickleson often spoke up that he should be able to play wherever he wants, and obviously he means to still play the minimum number of evens to maintain his membership. History shows us many times exhibition events have been held without issue.

Most players compete in more than the 15 events, and the Fed ex cup thing hooks the players up to even more.

The PGA tour is protecting their brand, if top players leave, so will their sponsors, which is a fair position for them to take. But they have gone about it the wrong way by being dickheads and creating the divide - IMO. They dont have a problem with the Rory and Tiger clown show, so their hypocrisy is showing.

[Sookie1]

I just found it funny how the PGA all of a sudden found a shit load more money for some of their tournaments. Their fat pockets are going to be a little less fat now.

[Yossarian]

John Howard took us to war so Cam Smith could take these dollars.

[Chilled]

“At a party given by a billionaire on Shelter Island, the late Kurt Vonnegut informs his pal, the author Joseph Heller, that their host, a hedge fund manager, had made more money in a single day than Heller had earned from his wildly popular novel Catch 22 over its whole history. Heller responds, “Yes, but I have something he will never have . . . Enough.”

Haha, nice.

If we keep going at this rate it just won't be worth watching the PGATour anymore.

[dee cee]

I don’t know man, they potentially play less tournaments per year, play less frequently, travel around the world playing different courses, somewhat team aspect and have 54 hole events instead of 72, shot gun start so they’re all starting and finishing at the same time in the same conditions, shorter days and a party atmosphere. Most get paid a truck load to be there and if you win (or even not!) you get another smaller truck load. And there are now a decent pack of players there.

I sort of get it….

[markTHEblake]

And for any non-american, they can go back and live at home

[davidp]

I totally get it. As an independent contractor, albeit on a way smaller pay scale, I am free to move my services to wherever I want to to maximise the return on my time and to suit my lifestyle / family circumstances. Granted, some of the choices in employer may go against personal beliefs (gaming, mining, media) but I can choose. It’s my time and return on the effort I have put into developing my skills. Now if only I had chosen golf instead of IT …

[Chilled]

I don’t know man, they potentially play less tournaments per year, play less frequently, travel around the world playing different courses, somewhat team aspect and have 54 hole events instead of 72, shot gun start so they’re all starting and finishing at the same time in the same conditions, shorter days and a party atmosphere. Most get paid a truck load to be there and if you win (or even not!) you get another smaller truck load. And there are now a decent pack of players there.

I sort of get it….

Yup, it's almost a no brainer, play 4 times less and get 4 times as much pay. The PGATour is pretty grueling.

[WBennett]

I totally get it. As an independent contractor, albeit on a way smaller pay scale, I am free to move my services to wherever I want to to maximise the return on my time and to suit my lifestyle / family circumstances. Granted, some of the choices in employer may go against personal beliefs (gaming, mining, media) but I can choose. It’s my time and return on the effort I have put into developing my skills. Now if only I had chosen golf instead of IT …

I agree with most of this. But in choosing to leave your previous company you contracted for in somewhat bad blood circumstances for a massive short term payday, would you then expect them to let you in to their best project when you demanded it because you wanted to be a part of the main game again?

[3Puttpete]

play 4 times less

Whenever I see a phrase like this I get confused. Do you mean 1/4?

[WBennett]

LIV Golf: Gary Player sounds off on players who’ve left PGA Tour (usatoday.com)

Genuinely shocked that the Golf Saudi ambassador would say this. I am guessing he will backtrack the statements by tomorrow.

[Chilled]

Whenever I see a phrase like this I get confused. Do you mean 1/4?

It doesn't take a lot to confuse you.

[davidp]

I agree with most of this. But in choosing to leave your previous company you contracted for in somewhat bad blood circumstances for a massive short term payday, would you then expect them to let you in to their best project when you demanded it because you wanted to be a part of the main game again?

Nope - but it’s a 2 way relationship. And if I had the opportunity to change my family’s life for not only my lifetime but for generations to come, I would have to seriously consider it. There is always angst from an incumbent when a new player enters the arena and offers a real alternative. Players are independent contractors but there are always consequences to accepting a new contract. And, by the way, I never leave an existing contract in bad blood. It’s a small market and word gets round.

[goughy]

I don't think there was a choice regarding the bad blood. Even leaving as politely as they could would have left a bad taste in the PGA's mouth.

[pt73]

I asked this question a while back. What is the end point? Does Norman and his ego eventually leave LIV, giving a chance at peace between the parties?

Do we see the best field in golf 4 times or less a year at Majors, and thats it? Do the LIV players have to prequalify when their world rankings dive?

Does the worlds most prestigious invitational pull their invites?

Do the LIV players have to prequalify when their world rankings dive?

Anyone who doesn't hold an exemption (previous Major winner) or be in the Top 50 will either need an invite or will have to pre-qualify if that exists for a Major.

That's the way it works now but I guess it could change, we'll see when the Masters invites are sent in early 2023.

[Yossarian]

Phil walked so Cam could run. Enjoying how the narrative changes when a bloke we like does it.

[pt73]

At least Harold Varner III was honest about why he left, no garbage about "growing the game".

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2022/0...f-news-boston/