Anyone else not really get better by much over the years, despite loads of practice?

[dee cee]

Hey peeps,

Have remained an average golfer for decades despite getting an array of lessons from an array of instructors (some quality teachers actually) and hitting gazillions of balls, trillions of slo mo work, drills etc. I’ve taken on the variety of ways to practice in modern day thinking in an attempt to ingrain things and I’m essentially swinging it just as inconsistent as always. Never really like what I see in my swing and rarely get it looking good. I’m fairly coordinated and have played all sports all my life in a Jack of all master of none type manner.

But I’m starting to think it’s pointless keeping lessons up and drilling and mirror work and pounding balls with a goal of hitting it good.

And I’m not after perfection, just something semi reliable and repeatable. I hit it like a champ then a 32 handicapper one after the other. The disparity between good and bad is great and often.

Anyway a great big rant for no reason but hoping some wise heads can agree or make comment.

Stay safe in the lockdown!

[markTHEblake]

As much as people bang on about the short game, both the Arcoss bloke and the fella who invented strokes gained are pretty consistent about fairways and greens.

Yeah but banging on about short game is good wisdom for choppers.

[sms316]

Get stronger. The game is more fun when you can just rip it over corners and bunkers. Screw the architects.

[3Puttpete]

This.

It's a hell of a lot easier to two-putt from 40 feet than it is trying to get up and down from 60.

And it's a hell of a lot easier to be 40 foot away than 60 if you're attempting it from centre fairway.

This is similar to one of the examples used.

Give a 20 hcp golfer v a touring pro 20 balls from anywhere on a green and the overall result is gonna be a lot closer than 20 balls from 150m out.

[Bruce]

I think a lot of the old "short game" advice is based on erroneous old stats.

"Avoid 3 putts" - given as wisdom on how to improve scoring, but it confuses an outcome with an action. It's a lot easier to avoid a 3 putt from 20 feet than it is from 60+ feet. The best way to avoid 3 putts is less about putting better and more about hitting it closer in the first place.

[petethepilot]

Avoiding 3 putts takes you from a 15 handicap to a 10 handicap.
5 to scratch means the whole entirety of your game must improve.
A scratch golfer still makes bogeys but they have it in them to bounce back and make 3 or 4 birdies per round.
It is also a belief that you can make birdies.

For what its worth, scratch is not necessarily a fun place to be as a golfer. I have been there (and just into plus figures) 4 or 5 times in my golfing life. I am presently off 2 at 61 years of age. To play well, I am actually not the best company on the golf course as I need to really grind and concentrate. I enjoy my golf more when I just go out and play and forget about my score.

I think try to work out what you are doing when you play well and learn your game. We all go through frustrating cycles of random bad golf. Don’t despair, try and get back to what you know works.
For me that is invariably my address setup or a lack of rotation in my torso!

Good luck.

[Webster]

Scratch today is nothing like it was 25-30 years ago under the old system, where you had to play high quality golf over a long sustained period to get there, and stay there. An 80's/90's 5 marker is the current scratch marker, due to the new handicap system, better equipment and higher course ratings.

Elimination of unforced errors leading to big scores/outs is the easiest way to lower your mark, whatever level you are.

[virge666]

Scratch today is nothing like it was 25-30 years ago under the old system, where you had to play high quality golf over a long sustained period to get there, and stay there. An 80's/90's 5 marker is the current scratch marker, due to the new handicap system, better equipment and higher course ratings.

I see what you are saying and having been scratch back then and now. Cant agree. Plus numbers now are easier to get to, but scratch is still freaking hard to get to and stay at. The idea that an old 5 marker is a modern scratch marker is absolute nonsense.

Equipment has changed - but so have the courses, and equipment has been counteracted by age. I hit it now about as far as i did in my 30's. I cant compare irons as the lofts and tech have changed so much. The new younger players have this advantage and also better coaching available to them. But, still up to them to put the work in.

At very low marks it isnt really about skill so much as execution. This aspect hasn't changed. The difference between a 2 marker and scratch marker still means 10 rounds out of 20 around Par, and i cant begin to describe how difficult that is. The old system you could get on a hot streak for a few weeks and hammer your handicap and it would plummet. not so much nowadays.

The game has really changed. A lot.

[Dazza]

I took the game up when I was 7.
Took part in plenty of junior coaching clinics back in the day, nothing really one-on-one.

Age 16, work got in the way & golf went on the backburner.

Started playing socially again at 23 & struggled to crack 100.
Work got in the way again.

Started playing socially again at 33, with newer equipment more suited to my ability.

Now age 38, I've got my Handicap back & I'm playing Comp at least once a week.
3 years ago my Handicap was 21.
I'm now down to 13.8.

I'm fairly happy with my swing at present.
I changed my iron swing to an out to in style about 12 months ago, my ball striking improved dramatically.
6 months ago I was cold topping everything off the tee with Driver.
Literally went away from driver entirely.
I've since spent some time on the range, completely changed my driver swing, and I'm back hitting 60-70% FIR.
I still sometimes struggle hitting GIR, but my short game is solid enough to bail me out most days.

How will I improve in the next 6-12 Months?

Long term goal is to get down to 10 & play to it consistently. I'm currently enjoying being in the mid-teens, 10 would be ideal.

Work on a preshot routine, and start slowing down when I approach the ball.
Focus focus focus.
I'm too quick to step up & wack it.
I need to slow all that down, put some more thought into my shots, and start having a practice swing.

Good golfing all!

[Hatchman]

I don’t understand this Iron swing and Driver swing stuff.
It’s hard enough to get swing consistency using one swing throughout a round yet having to switch between the two during a round all the time.

[AndyP]

You already have different swing for chipping and putting. It's just another one for a different club to get the most out of it.

[Hatchman]

Wouldn’t put them in same category as the two that are full swings.

[markTHEblake]

I definitely have different swings. I dont want to take divots with my driver.

[Dazza]

I definitely have different swings. I dont want to take divots with my driver.

Indeed.

[Hatchman]

To all you people that are claiming you/need to swing differently with the Driver.
Are you thinking about these different things pre shot or part of your routine?
And what are those different thoughts?

[Kelsey86]

I'm not. The swing itself might be slightly different given I'm hitting, or trying to hit up on the ball sitting on a tee, but that's mostly taken care of by it being positioned forward in the stance anyway. I'm not consciously thinking I need to do anything differently. I'm more focused on whatever I've picked as my target and trying to send the ball in its direction than anything. It's probably subconscious that I don't hit the ground with it.

[BUSHY]

As much as people bang on about the short game, both the Arcoss bloke and the fella who invented strokes gained are pretty consistent about fairways and greens.

And has been saying it for over a decade. This from 2016.

[Bruce]

And at that time commentators were still bemoaning the idea that the PGA tour was a putting contest.

[3Puttpete]

And has been saying it for over a decade. This from 2016.

Scottie Scheffler likes this. 2022/23

[Ron Burgundy]

Scottie Scheffler likes this. 2022/23

His putting is fine. It’s just a media narrative.

[Dcanto]

His putting is fine. It’s just a media narrative.

https://youtu.be/GdOUB-6jlGk?si=uzlu27tYG8kZYy4K

[BobsYourUncle]

edit - realise 3PP already posted his stats. Scheffler absolutely has a putting problem, but he's so good everywhere else it compensates. If he even became an average putter (0 SG), he'd be dominant.

Granted, putting is slightly less important than the other categories - the best putter was only gaining 0.956 shots last season.

[JoeS]

Getting better is relative to how much you put in to your game. Going to a range and hitting the same shot over and over is not practice. Practice the shots you don't have, get better at trying different things and then you will improve. If you just do the same stuff every time then you will never learn.

[Hatchman]

Getting better is relative to how much you put in to your game. Going to a range and hitting the same shot over and over is not practice. Practice the shots you don't have, get better at trying different things and then you will improve. If you just do the same stuff every time then you will never learn.

That's what a many people will tell but its not always true.
Went through a stage where a lot of time was spent and lessons over 18 months where things went backwards badly (old Hcp system going from 3 to 1 game away from 9). It was structured and varied practice not just mindless belting balls on a range as you list above.

[Birdy Mcbogeyface]

Scratch today is nothing like it was 25-30 years ago under the old system, where you had to play high quality golf over a long sustained period to get there, and stay there. An 80's/90's 5 marker is the current scratch marker, due to the new handicap system, better equipment and higher course ratings.

Elimination of unforced errors leading to big scores/outs is the easiest way to lower your mark, whatever level you are.

So, im not sure that is accurate. I remember the old system where you could reduce your handicap fast by having a few good games but would only go up .1 for all games over your handicap. So you could have 20 bad games following and only go up 2 shots on handicap no matter how bad.. I think now you need to be more consistent then back then. I was a 4 handicap in mid 90's and to be honest only shot a 4-5 rounds near par to get that. Now i am a 4 handicap again and i always break 80. Have been under par many times and have shot countless lower rounds than i ever did on the old system. my short game is light years ahead of my 90's short game.

Elimination of unforced errors is 100% correct but the problem is that people practice the wrong things and get good at the wrong things. Once people practice the right things they can improve quickly.

[ParkRoyal]

So, im not sure that is accurate. I remember the old system where you could reduce your handicap fast by having a few good games but would only go up .1 for all games over your handicap. So you could have 20 bad games following and only go up 2 shots on handicap no matter how bad.. I think now you need to be more consistent then back then. I was a 4 handicap in mid 90's and to be honest only shot a 4-5 rounds near par to get that. Now i am a 4 handicap again and i always break 80. Have been under par many times and have shot countless lower rounds than i ever did on the old system. my short game is light years ahead of my 90's short game.

Elimination of unforced errors is 100% correct but the problem is that people practice the wrong things and get good at the wrong things. Once people practice the right things they can improve quickly.

You could drop your handicap from a higher mark quite quickly back then (I should know I dropped 5 shots in one go once) because the caclulation for higher markers was .2 (maybe more in some instances) per shot better than your handicap. But once you got to a low mark, it was .1 (again it may have been less) and once you're lower marker it is much harder to have those super rounds, but everytime you didn't make your handicap you wen't out .1, so someone off 0.0 was only 5 games from going out 1. I think the curren't system can drop you quicker even if a lower marker and will keep you there for longer as well.