Lockdown again in Vic

[benno_r]

No one is ever going to be denied lifesaving healthcare regardless of their personal choices. It’s not how the healthcare system works. Everything outside of that is fair game. ‘No shirt, no shoes, no service’ can reasonably become ‘no shirt, no shoes, no vax, no service’.

I know that, but there is a growing sentiment that even basic medical service should also be denied (Covid or Non-covid related). I have no real opinion on the other parts of the proposals, but the thought that denial of any healthcare is even considered really bothers me.

[Jazz18]

You should be ok then.

It's not just about me. It's about what people want our community to be.

[Jazz18]

Yes. It’s all bullshit.

Ok then

[Jazz18]

You ABSOLUTELY equated COVID to them WHEN YOU COMPARED THEM.

"Fear mongering"???? What the **** are you on about??? I read information on COVID from Health Officers and Virologists, who pass their knowledge on to / advise Governments. The only thing I fear is the braindead ****tards who think they know better than scientists with decades of years of experience in such a specialised field.

I'm trying NOT TO kick the immuno-compromised to the kerb, you dolt. They CAN'T have a vaccinatioon, which is why the rest of us NEED to. So that they can function in society once we get to a FAR MORE manageable level.

You're right, there ARE plenty of things that can kill us that we live with every day. The stuff that is likely to happen without controls (ie. car accidents) are HEAVILY regulated, as I explained earlier. The absolute lightning strike stuff (fish bones, getting hit by a golf ball) we don't worry about because basic society as a whole has deemed them acceptable levels of risk.

Let me make it clear, the ONLY group I'm happy to discard are the anti-vaxxers. Society as a whole will be far better off without those mouth-breathing, self-serving, "flag-waving", "you can't take away my civil rights" morons.

Why the insult? Cause I don't share the same opinion as you? It's a bit juvenile.

I'm no fan of them either as a general rule but there some people who may not be choosing to have this one because they're always anti vaxx. They might be cautious if this one for many reasons, not least of all because of some of the government's messaging. My wife and I were those people until we discussed it together and we are definitely not anti vaxxers.

It's not that black and white and the fact that there are A LOT of people with the same opinion as you about this situation in Australia is scary. Get the jab and ur a good person, don't get it and ur a **** and should be treated like a piece of shite.

It's not right.

[Webster]

It's not just about me. It's about what people want our community to be.

Rights and privileges are fundamentally not the same thing. Your inability to comprehend this is what deflates your argument further with every post.

[LeftyHoges]

Why the insult? Cause I don't share the same opinion as you? It's a bit juvenile.

I'm no fan of them either as a general rule but there some people who may not be choosing to have this one because they're always anti vaxx. They might be cautious if this one for many reasons, not least of all because of some of the government's messaging. My wife and I were those people until we discussed it together and we are definitely not anti vaxxers.

It's not that black and white and the fact that there are A LOT of people with the same opinion as you about this situation in Australia is scary. Get the jab and ur a good person, don't get it and ur a **** and should be treated like a piece of shite.

It's not right.

WHAT GOVERNMENT MESSAGING!?!?! What the hell are you on about? The Government says to get a vax. What other message is there?

Yes, THERE ARE A LOT of people with the same opinion as me. Majorities usually represent the feeling of a greater group of people that have all come to a conclusion through sane and rational thought and / or research, compared to the minority who get their information from Facebook and their "friends brothers cousins mothers housecleaner, who heard it from their hairdresser".

Being anti-vax against all other vaccines doesn't make being anti-vax about the COVID vaccine any better. It just makes you MORE wrong.

[Jazz18]

Rights and privileges are fundamentally not the same thing. Your inability to comprehend this is what deflates your argument further with every post.

It's clear that yourself and several others are ok with mandating medical procedures. Mandating by proxy in this case. You're still forcing people to do something they shouldn't be forced to do. Forcing people to take a medication or their whole life goes down the toilet??? I'll say it again, it's not right. Rights and privileges regardless. The fact that you can't see how this separation of people based on their medical status is appalling.

[3Puttpete]

It's clear that yourself and several others are ok with mandating medical procedures. Mandating by proxy in this case. You're still forcing people to do something they shouldn't be forced to do. Forcing people to take a medication or their whole life goes down the toilet??? I'll say it again, it's not right. Rights and privileges regardless. The fact that you can't see how this separation of people based on their medical status is appalling.

When did you decide you should be the one to determine the exceptions?

[Jazz18]

WHAT GOVERNMENT MESSAGING!?!?! What the hell are you on about? The Government says to get a vax. What other message is there?

Yes, THERE ARE A LOT of people with the same opinion as me. Majorities usually represent the feeling of a greater group of people that have all come to a conclusion through sane and rational thought and / or research, compared to the minority who get their information from Facebook and their "friends brothers cousins mothers housecleaner, who heard it from their hairdresser".

Being anti-vax against all other vaccines doesn't make being anti-vax about the COVID vaccine any better. It just makes you MORE wrong.

So you've just conveniently forgotten all the politicians and health experts advice about AZ? Jeanette Young's quote was special. "No I don't want anyone under 40 to get the AZ as they are at higher risk of illness from AZ than COVID," or words to that effect. That was a doozy. That stuff sticks. And in case you missed it, the messaging over AZ has changed multiple times in the last few months.

And yes, the fact that the majority of people think about this the same way as you is scary. You claim to be about thinking if others but as soon as they don't share your view, you'll cast them to the scrap heap.

It's not right.

[Dotty]

Right on, Brother Jazz.

I don't have children, so the government shouldn't dictate to me to drive under 40kmh in school zones.

[LeftyHoges]

It's clear that yourself and several others are ok with mandating medical procedures. Mandating by proxy in this case. You're still forcing people to do something they shouldn't be forced to do. Forcing people to take a medication or their whole life goes down the toilet??? I'll say it again, it's not right. Rights and privileges regardless. The fact that you can't see how this separation of people based on their medical status is appalling.

So you'd happily open the country up now with a 40% vaccination rate (not that vaccination rate is consequential at all to you) and just live with the hundreds of thousands of deaths?

[Jazz18]

When did you decide you should be the one to determine the exceptions?

I didn't. I don't make those decisions. Government and employers have. Just like the broader decisions. I don't make them, I only agree or disagree. That's all any of us do at the end of the day.

[Captain Nemo]

Natural selection.

Darwin would be pleased…

[Jazz18]

So you'd happily open the country up now with a 40% vaccination rate (not that vaccination rate is consequential at all to you) and just live with the hundreds of thousands of deaths?

Where did you get 40% from? What's that got to do with it?

[Captain Nemo]

Title of thread needs changing, just sayin….

[Jazz18]

Title of thread needs changing, just sayin….

[Jazz18]

Right on, Brother Jazz.

I don't have children, so the government shouldn't dictate to me to drive under 40kmh in school zones.

Driving at 40kph doesn't involve a forced medical procedure.

[LeftyHoges]

So you've just conveniently forgotten all the politicians and health experts advice about AZ? Jeanette Young's quote was special. "No I don't want anyone under 40 to get the AZ as they are at higher risk of illness from AZ than COVID," or words to that effect. That was a doozy. That stuff sticks. And in case you missed it, the messaging over AZ has changed multiple times in the last few months.

And yes, the fact that the majority of people think about this the same way as you is scary. You claim to be about thinking if others but as soon as they don't share your view, you'll cast them to the scrap heap.

It's not right.

That's fine for AZ then, wait for the Pfizer jab. And do all the socially responsible things like not go to a ****ing packed Bondi Beach.

No, it's not scary. For some reason it's scary to you, god knows why, but it's not scary to THE MAJORITY.

And I'm only thinking of the other sane and sensible poeple, not the idiots. I don't care about idiots. Happily cast them "to the scrap heap".

[3Puttpete]

I didn't. I don't make those decisions. Government and employers have. Just like the broader decisions. I don't make them, I only agree or disagree. That's all any of us do at the end of the day.

The problems with your posts as I see them, and this is true for anyone attempting to make any point, are extreme statements about it being wrong to treat people differently based on their vaccination status. You state this as an absolute then agree there should be exceptions.

Similar rules have been in place for years for unvaccinated children not being allowed to enrol in child care. Other than rabid anti-vaxxers, very few people seem to have a problem with this.

Adopting the stance so strongly now comes across as some sort of COVID lunacy.

[Captain Nemo]

That's fine for AZ then, wait for the Pfizer jab. And do all the socially responsible things like not go to a ****ing packed Bondi Beach.

No, it's not scary. For some reason it's scary to you, god knows why, but it's not scary to THE MAJORITY.

And I'm only thinking of the other sane and sensible poeple, not the idiots. I don't care about idiots. Happily cast them "to the scrap heap".

no, no, no, need people to keep going to Bondi and drink coffee and buy bacon and egg rolls!
How the **** an I supposed to support my gambling addiction with no money coming in!
FFS Lefty….!

[Jazz18]

That's fine for AZ then, wait for the Pfizer jab. And do all the socially responsible things like not go to a ****ing packed Bondi Beach.

No, it's not scary. For some reason it's scary to you, god knows why, but it's not scary to THE MAJORITY.

And I'm only thinking of the other sane and sensible poeple, not the idiots. I don't care about idiots. Happily cast them "to the scrap heap".

You don't get it. If you and the "majority" are willing to cast people to the scrap heap for having a different opinion or thought process on this, what's next? How about you think about the fact that one day it might be you on the other side of the discussion and the one copping the flack.

Instead of running your mouth off at me, how about you think about it for more than a few seconds and take your emotion out of it. Opinion or decisions based on emotion are rarely well guided.

[LeftyHoges]

Where did you get 40% from? What's that got to do with it?

I got the 40% from the Australian Governemnt Health website, and what the **** do you mean what's that got to do with it?

So you don't want people vaccinated, want to open up the country, and just "accept the risk"? That's essentially what you've said so far.

This thing KILLS. We're at over 4.5m worldwide, with no sign of it stopping any time soon. With fantastic hospitals, health professionals and scientific technologies and methods.

Enjoy your 500,000 avoidable deaths in this country alone just so you can return to your "normal life". I'll bet those in the health profession would be looking forward to never being able to return to their normal life again either because of it.

[LeftyHoges]

You don't get it. If you and the "majority" are willing to cast people to the scrap heap for having a different opinion or thought process on this, what's next? How about you think about the fact that one day it might be you on the other side of the discussion and the one copping the flack.

Instead of running your mouth off at me, how about you think about it for more than a few seconds and take your emotion out of it. Opinion or decisions based on emotion are rarely well guided.

What's next? ****s sake. Fortunately it won't be me on the other side copping the flak because if it's something that the MAJORITY decide it's for the betterment of the country / people / who / whatever.

I dont have emotion on THIS, I have emotion on the braindead ****wits who think they know better when it comes to all this shit.

THIS situation could not be any clearer. There's NO EMOTION attached to this situation.

[Jazz18]

The problems with your posts as I see them, and this is true for anyone attempting to make any point, are extreme statements about it being wrong to treat people differently based on their vaccination status. You state this as an absolute then agree there should be exceptions.

Similar rules have been in place for years for unvaccinated children not being allowed to enrol in child care. Other than rabid anti-vaxxers, very few people seem to have a problem with this.

Adopting the stance so strongly now comes across as some sort of COVID lunacy.

Only if you put people in a box and make assumptions about their opinion. As I just said to Lefty, the people that think the COVID unvaccinated should be cast to the scrap heap are not thinking this full issue through. That could be them one day if they don't share the majority opinion or point if view. Yes, you're right, there are segments of our society where those kinds of rules are already in place but and that's done selectively and reasonably but some of the stuff being said here is just going too far

[Dotty]

If enough are excluded, they can do a Monash and start their golf club.