Rakes in Bunkers - Moving Forward

[Johnny Canuck]

Preferred lies were great when we had them, but I’m not a fan.

Divots, it’s part of the game and too open to interpretation, there are plenty that would take advantage of it.

I’m only saying that the argument that they are hazards, so footprints should be accepted is horseshit because it is a surface that is generally maintained.

[Jazz18]

I’m only saying that the argument that they are hazards, so footprints should be accepted is horseshit because it is a surface that is generally maintained.

I agree with you here, they SHOULD be maintained as that is generally how they are presented. I believe clubs (and members themselves) don't do enough to make sure of it.

[thecollective]

Bushy's post wasn't talking about fairness in hazard only.

I've played clubs that have a local rule about kangaroo footprints in bunkers. I assume that your opinion would be to abolish this local rule also?

Correct

[3Puttpete]

I’m only saying that the argument that they are hazards, so footprints should be accepted is horseshit because it is a surface that is generally maintained.

Nailed it.

Whether or not it should is the line between I deserve a good lie and stiff.

[thecollective]

What is the full meaning of hazard?

noun. an unavoidable danger or risk, even though often foreseeable: The job was full of hazards. something causing unavoidable danger, peril, risk, or difficulty: the many hazards of the big city.

[BobsYourUncle]

Be a bit careful throwing the word "hazard" around, it has a specific meaning in golf, which does not cover bunkers.

Bunkers are designed to be a challenge, and they are challenging without having to hit out of someone else's foot-hole. IMO rakes in bunkers, and clean up after yourself. Preferred lies (and smooth with your feet) if there isn't a rake. We're not playing with hickory shafts and featheries anymore, bunkers are intended to be raked.

If it's a course maintenance/cost thing, reduce the number of bunkers, perhaps replace them with grass bunkers which can work really well as previously stated.

[thecollective]

https://golf-info-guide.com/golf-tip...ot-as-it-lies/

[BobsYourUncle]

https://golf-info-guide.com/golf-tip...ot-as-it-lies/

Fair enough, I'm confusing hazards (a term not used anymore) with penalty areas (which bunkers aren't). Apologies. Sill stand by the rest of my post.

[thecollective]

Fair enough, I'm confusing hazards (a term not used anymore) with penalty areas (which bunkers aren't). Apologies. Sill stand by the rest of my post.

All good, I don't like footprints and it pisses me off just as much as Joe Bloggs

but I feel we have been spoilt as a golfing collective when it comes to bunkers and you can thank the Americans for it.

[aussieashley]

With no rakes and preferred lies in bunkers have the “play it as it lies” guys been not taking a preferred lie in a bunker?

Yep and I take a drop from divots in fairways because thinking a rule should change is the same as ignoring them.

As far as I’m aware, preferred lies in bunkers wasn’t compulsory. You could still play it as it lies if you wanted to.
So not taking a preferred lie isn’t ignoring the rule.

[Jazz18]

As far as I’m aware, preferred lies in bunkers wasn’t compulsory. You could still play it as it lies if you wanted to.
So not taking a preferred lie isn’t ignoring the rule.

But it is, if it's employed on a permanent basis, don't you think? It's ignoring the most basic rule of golf to play it as it lies.

[thecollective]

**** the score, I just play to get out of the house and enjoy the sunshine and company, lose money to the old ****s with high well maintained handicaps and then have a cold beer or 4 after, couldn’t give a **** about my score!

We should play golf sometime


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[aussieashley]

But it is, if it's employed on a permanent basis, don't you think? It's ignoring the most basic rule of golf to play it as it lies.

With bunkers being a specifically defined area of the course they can have their own specific rules.I just feel like some of the advantages to bunker preferred lies mentioned here outweigh the disadvantages, if a permanent change was made.

Preferred lies in bunkers takes out inconsistencies in people’s raking, hopefully reduces course maintenance and if you do get the unlucky footprint or plugged lie you basically get free relief (that last one won’t be popular in here I don’t think)

Besides not playing it as it lies, what are the big disadvantages to preferred lies in bunkers only?
It goes against the core principle of playing it as it lies? And golf isn’t meant to be fair?

[aussieashley]

Sorry phone has butchered the formatting of the above.

[Minor_Threat]

We have been back to pre COVID rules in bunkers for a few months now.

That is the way I like it, no need for preferred lies, just rake it and tidy up after yourself. It is just plain golf etiquette and one of the first things I was taught as a young bloke..

[Dotty]

Besides not playing it as it lies, what are the big disadvantages to preferred lies in bunkers only?

Preferred lies in bunkers changes the player's strategy and undermines the architecture of the course.
e.g. Going into a fairway bunker would be an advantage by being allowed the perfect lie to clean hit a long iron or 3w.
Ditto around the greens, when faced with a steep face and water on the other side of the green.

I like the idea of removing the rakes and no preferred lies. Then the committees will reduce the number of bunkers and reduce their maintenance budget.

p.s. The original bunkers were depressions where sheep sheltered from the wind. You don't see posts from Old Tom Morris complaining that a sheep didn't rake the bunker, when it got out of bed.

[Captain Nemo]

We should play golf sometime


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If you ever come to Sydney look me up happy to host you at Sydney’s 5th best course, lol

[BobsYourUncle]

p.s. The original bunkers were depressions where sheep sheltered from the wind. You don't see posts from Old Tom Morris complaining that a sheep didn't rake the bunker, when it got out of bed.

Do you play with original clubs and balls? The game has moved on.

[Jazz18]

If you ever come to Sydney look me up happy to host you at Sydney’s 5th best course, lol

That's debatable if they're using preferred lies in bunkers for maintenance reasons!

[Captain Nemo]

That's debatable if they're using preferred lies in bunkers for maintenance reasons!

Tounge in cheek comment mate wouldn’t have a ****ing clue where it sits!

[Captain Nemo]

We do have a lot of ****ing bunkers, I’d hate to count them let alone maintain them ������

[Dotty]

Do you play with original clubs and balls? The game has moved on.

Of course, not.

But I also don't think playing courses like it is Caddyshack 2 is a forward step.

[thecollective]

If you ever come to Sydney look me up happy to host you at Sydney’s 5th best course, lol

Will be a back scratching exercise if my membership starts 1/7 #oz


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[Jazz18]

Tounge in cheek comment mate wouldn’t have a ****ing clue where it sits!

[3Puttpete]

Preferred lies in bunkers changes the player's strategy and undermines the architecture of the course.
e.g. Going into a fairway bunker would be an advantage by being allowed the perfect lie to clean hit a long iron or 3w.
Ditto around the greens, when faced with a steep face and water on the other side of the green.

I like the idea of removing the rakes and no preferred lies. Then the committees will reduce the number of bunkers and reduce their maintenance budget.

p.s. The original bunkers were depressions where sheep sheltered from the wind. You don't see posts from Old Tom Morris complaining that a sheep didn't rake the bunker, when it got out of bed.

Sheep aren’t allowed rakes. There was an incident at a Bunning’s sausage sizzle one morning.