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31st January 2021 12:20 PM
#26
Senior Member
Touring Pro (European Tour)
If the ball did not bounce and you need a rules official to clarify the situation wouldn't you leave the ball where it lies, explain the situation and then lift the ball (under inspection) for the rules official to check the ground below?
Patrick moved the ball to claim assumption of ball position rather than its precise location. Had it stayed there the ruling would have been play it as it lies as the ball did actually bounce and lie on its second grounding.
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31st January 2021 12:42 PM
#27
Senior Member
Touring Pro (PGA)
Originally Posted by
3puttpete
The article is misleading.
“He can then be heard telling the official, not once but twice, that his ball hadn't bounced.” Is incorrect.
He actually told the official “They said it didn’t bounce”
As for the video, the USGA and R&A said in 2017
(1) the “naked eye” standard (if video shows the existence of a breach of the Rules based on facts the player was not aware of at the time and that could not reasonably have been seen with the naked eye, there will be no penalty), and (2) the “reasonable judgment” standard (if a player does all that can reasonably be expected in making a determination about a spot, area, point, line, distance or other location in applying the Rules, the player’s reasonable judgment will be upheld even if later shown to be wrong by video evidence or other information.)
He’s also allowed to lift his ball to check if it might be embedded.
Other than arguing he and the volunteer closest to the landing spot are lying about seeing it bounce, I can’t see he didn’t anything wrong.
This.
Allowed to check
Marked and checked
Called a rules official to confirm
Reed Derangement Syndrome is rife on social media and here it seems. So many assumptions by the mob.
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31st January 2021 12:43 PM
#28
Senior Member
Major Winner
Originally Posted by
thecollective
If the ball did not bounce and you need a rules official to clarify the situation wouldn't you leave the ball where it lies, explain the situation and then lift the ball (under inspection) for the rules official to check the ground below?
Patrick moved the ball to claim assumption of ball position rather than its precise location. Had it stayed there the ruling would have been play it as it lies as the ball did actually bounce and lie on its second grounding.
So he just picked it up without marking it? I hadn’t seen that confirmed, thanks for clearing it up.
In that case he’s a magician for pointing the rules official to a random spot he knew the official would feel and determine there was an indentation in the ground you can’t see through the grass.
The whole world knows it bounced because we saw the video. They can’t use the video to make the decision.
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31st January 2021 12:45 PM
#29
Senior Member
Major Winner
I haven't really followed this too closely, but weren't they playing "lift, clean and place" anyway due to the wet conditions ?
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31st January 2021 12:48 PM
#30
Senior Member
Golf Hall of Fame Inductee
nothing suss here at all.
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31st January 2021 12:51 PM
#31
Senior Member
Touring Pro (European Tour)
Last edited by thecollective; 31st January 2021 at 12:53 PM.
Reason: Nup, not worth it
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31st January 2021 02:56 PM
#32
Senior Member
Touring Pro (PGA)
Originally Posted by
backintheswing
I haven't really followed this too closely, but weren't they playing "lift, clean and place" anyway due to the wet conditions ?
Yes but lift clean and place is only on the fairway, Reeds ball was in the rough.If no one saw it bounce, he did exactly what he is allowed to do.
Golflink
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31st January 2021 03:05 PM
#33
Senior Member
Grand Slam Winner
Leading the Tour
Strokes gained cheating
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31st January 2021 03:06 PM
#34
Senior Member
Major Winner
Originally Posted by
Steve57
Yes but lift clean and place is only on the fairway, Reeds ball was in the rough.If no one saw it bounce, he did exactly what he is allowed to do.
Copy on the fairway part
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31st January 2021 03:07 PM
#35
Senior Member
Grand Slam Winner
Originally Posted by
3puttpete
So he just picked it up without marking it? I hadn’t seen that confirmed, thanks for clearing it up.
In that case he’s a magician for pointing the rules official to a random spot he knew the official would feel and determine there was an indentation in the ground you can’t see through the grass.
The whole world knows it bounced because we saw the video. They can’t use the video to make the decision.
Sorry
Strokes gain faux cheating
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31st January 2021 05:37 PM
#36
Originally Posted by
3puttpete
Other than arguing he and the volunteer closest to the landing spot are lying about seeing it bounce, I can’t see he didn’t anything wrong.
After he picks up his ball he has his hand in the rough for about 5-10 seconds, then proceeds to use the towel on his bag to clean his hand. Then the rules official comes and confirms that they could 'feel a lip on it' and that it feels like the ball had broken the ground.
How on earth could a ball that bounced (no higher than a foot or so) have broken ground once landing to a point you could feel where it had become embedded?
The guy has either pushed his ball into the ground or lifted his ball to check and once he's realised there was no problem he's made a pitch mark or something with his thumb.
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31st January 2021 06:13 PM
#37
Senior Member
Major Winner
Originally Posted by
Pickles
After he picks up his ball he has his hand in the rough for about 5-10 seconds, then proceeds to use the towel on his bag to clean his hand. Then the rules official comes and confirms that they could 'feel a lip on it' and that it feels like the ball had broken the ground.
How on earth could a ball that bounced (no higher than a foot or so) have broken ground once landing to a point you could feel where it had become embedded?
The guy has either pushed his ball into the ground or lifted his ball to check and once he's realised there was no problem he's made a pitch mark or something with his thumb.
That’s an assumption. There’s no proof of that.
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31st January 2021 06:14 PM
#38
Senior Member
Golf Hall of Fame Inductee
Originally Posted by
Diamonds
Who else removes their ball from the questionable (2nd bounce plug WTF) before the official or marker is present.
There is no rule that says an official or marker must be present. There is also no penalty for pleading/begging/asking for relief before or after taking the relief, nor is that cheating. If it was 3/4's of tour players would be cheats including Tiger Woods.
He either broke a rule by taking relief or he didnt. The rules officials decide that.
I reckon the rest of the field say we aren't playing unless he is DQed or withdraws.
That would absolutely be the worst thing that could happen to the game. Last thing we want is for golf professionals to carry on like facebook warriors.
--
Criticism doesn't bother me, as it means I am doing something and people are watching.
Handy-Cap
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31st January 2021 06:15 PM
#39
Senior Member
Touring Pro (Nationwide Tour)
If it wasn't Patrick Reed we wouldn't be hearing about it as much.
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1st February 2021 07:44 AM
#40
Senior Member
Order of Merit winner
Would love to see Hovland win at Torrey Pines, I've picked Xander, but I think he is too far back.
Anyone but that smug turd Reed please
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1st February 2021 10:02 AM
#41
Senior Member
Touring Pro (European Tour)
I feel your pain Victor, lip out the birdie putt only to miss the two footer for par
Last edited by thecollective; 1st February 2021 at 10:15 AM.
Reason: IBF corrected
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1st February 2021 10:33 AM
#42
Senior Member
Order of Merit winner
Can't argue Reed's talent and it was on display. He has oodles of it.
Just not my kind of person
Srixon 565 - 10.5 deg stiff Miyazaki
Srixon 565 - 15 deg stiff Miyazaki
Srixon H45 - 90gr Stiff Whiteboard
Fourteen DI w/ SPB Stiff
Bridgestone J15CB 4-PW SPB's Stiff
Fourteen MT28 TS Spec 53 & 58 DG Spinner
Piretti Cortino
GOLF Link
BENCH
Drivers/Fairways/Hybrids
Yamaha v202 9.5* - Tourspec x flex
Sonartec SS-03
V Steel 3wd
V Steel 4wd Attas T3 8x
Titleist 585h 19*
Irons
Mizuno MP33 3-P
Putters
Ping Anser, Anser 2, Scottsdale
Wedges
Cleveland 54
Fourteen 48
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1st February 2021 10:49 AM
#43
Member
Touring Pro (Von Nida Tour)
Will be interesting to see how this unfolds now that he's 7.5mil richer...
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1st February 2021 10:59 AM
#44
Senior Member
Touring Pro (Japanese Tour)
Finally Fatricks cheating has paid off with a win.
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1st February 2021 11:12 AM
#45
Site Owner
Golf Hall of Fame Inductee
A lot of jealousy in this thread. Take inspiration from it, and learn to be more "creative" on the course instead.
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1st February 2021 11:48 AM
#46
Senior Member
Major Winner
Maybe next time, Patrick could run it by the rules official before doing anything controversial.
Surely thrice bitten, fourth time shy.
You don't get me. I'm part of the Union.
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1st February 2021 11:56 AM
#47
Senior Member
Golf Hall of Fame Inductee
It was only controversial because it was Patrick. He did follow the procedure according to the rules as I understand it.
--
Criticism doesn't bother me, as it means I am doing something and people are watching.
Handy-Cap
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1st February 2021 12:12 PM
#48
Member
Touring Pro (Von Nida Tour)
Originally Posted by
markTHEblake
It was only controversial because it was Patrick. He did follow the procedure according to the rules as I understand it.
Exactly... so a little self-awareness goes a long way when you're that famous, and have that kind of past. Admittedly, you would assume your mind is on nothing but the next shot when you're playing at that level.
Seems to me that he played within the rules, but did he play within the morals of the top level sport? I have no idea, and really can't have an idea until I play at that level... so never will have an idea.
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1st February 2021 03:47 PM
#49
Senior Member
Grand Slam Winner
When you’re returning in a tennis match with no umpire and it’s a big point.
Every ace is a let.
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1st February 2021 04:45 PM
#50
Senior Member
Touring Pro (European Tour)
Originally Posted by
thecollective
Patrick moved the ball to claim assumption of ball position rather than its precise location.
I admit this was not quite correct (after watching the replay more closely as at the time I was making judgement on a single live view) but even still you should not just lift your ball and start prodding around without being in the presence of another player or a rules official.
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