Bought fake clubs, curious what my legal avenues are.

[sfdoddsy]

Normally I’m the careful type when buying clubs. But when you buy used from fellow golfers you have a certain expectation of honesty. Like you’d find on course.

So I bought a used set of PXG irons the other day. I currently game PXGs, but these had the black finish and my fave shaft.

After positive back and forth with the seller (Gumtree) we agreed a price and that I would drive up to Cypress Lakes to pick them up. The seller was mid way through his round, so I just grabbed them, gave him the cash and drove home.

When I checked them out properly, it was immediately apparent they weren’t the Gen 2 he had advertised. They were the same as my set. I sent him an email pointing this out. But, for a discount on the price, thought maybe I’d keep them.

Next morning I took them out on course and hit them awfully. They felt nothing like my set. I went down to Powergolf and compared them on their monitor. Just as awful.

I noticed that visually the heads seemed to have more offset, and were way lighter.

So I took them to Pureform. They said they were fakes. The first they’d actually seen. The seller had bought other PXGs from them, but not these.

So I’ve asked for a full refund.

The seller has responded that he will will give me a refund if he gets one from the guy he bought them from. Apparently he paid a lot for them.

Now he wants me to drop them off to the guy he got them from, who will refund him, then he will refund me.

I’m pretty sure he had no clue, but also pretty sure he should refund me before sorting out the original seller.

But I’m not sure if I can legally threaten him or not.

Were he in Sygney I would vertainly physically threaten him.

Thoughts?

[markTHEblake]

You have no legal recourse whatsoever

[MAZA68]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0ESR610dcA

Not much help but a good warning

[sfdoddsy]

You have no legal recourse whatsoever

In spite of the fact he misrepresented the clubs in the initial listing, then they turned out to be fake?

I wasn’t sure if I’ve been defrauded, but thought there might be a civil case.

Not that I can be arsed going through that kind of hassle, but thought it might be a useful threat.

Appealing to the honour of golfers hasn’t had great success.

I certainly wish I’d bought them through his listing on eBay, which would cover it.

Mind you, he has a couple of listings on eBay at the moment.

Maybe I should hit Buy It Now.

[Captain Nemo]

Throw the Links up...

[petethepilot]

I would refund u no questions asked...then expect the same from the guy who sold them to me!

[sfdoddsy]

Likewise. I’ve refunded people for change of mind, drunk clicking, ignorance and much more.

Apparently he has got the original seller to agree to refund him, out of which he will refund me. But I get the feeling it won’t be the full amount.

If what he says he paid is true I’d be surprised.

[sfdoddsy]

Double post

[keymaster]

If the guy you bought from is legit and actually going to give your money back. He sounds pretty reasonable. So I don't see why he wouldn't agree to do a meet up with all 3 parties. Assuming you're all relatively close by.

Even if he got them for peanuts and made a huge profit on you, I would assure him you don't care and just keen to get your money back.

[3oneday]

Unless the first guy knew they were fake, but as keymaster said, your focus is the amount you paid.

[chappy1970]

I've been on the other side of this equation.

I sold some heads to a guy on GolfWRx. When he received them he took them to his builder and he told him they were fakes.

He got a little narky with me initially, but I was horrified that I'd unknowingly sold some fake heads and refunded him asap.

Ended up costing me a bit as I had to pay post back from the US.

Only time it's ever happened to me

[markTHEblake]

How does anyone know if its realy fake or not. One persons word is not an absolute unless its the manufacturer.. I once had a Callaway driver, new in plastic, was told it was fake by two retailers because of the colour of the loft numbers. A 3rd retailer said that only symbolised it as Asian market product, which it was.

[chappy1970]

How does anyone know if its realy fake or not. One persons word is not an absolute unless its the manufacturer.. I once had a Callaway driver, new in plastic, was told it was fake by two retailers because of the colour of the loft numbers. A 3rd retailer said that only symbolised it as Asian market product, which it was.

Mark the give away for the heads I sold was the weight. They were all over the place.
I didn't bother weighing them when I had them, as i was just planning to sell them

[Webster]

How does anyone know if its realy fake or not. One persons word is not an absolute unless its the manufacturer.. I once had a Callaway driver, new in plastic, was told it was fake by two retailers because of the colour of the loft numbers. A 3rd retailer said that only symbolised it as Asian market product, which it was.

I agree. Most of the people working in golf shops saying “fake” are clueless ****tards who have no clue.

[Wenz]

I remember going into a big retailer with my SLDR at the time and because I had a previous generation adapter, the salesman was adamant it was a fake.
I'd definitely get a second opinion or even post some pictures here for others to compare.

[Planet Golf]

Having purchased from Doddsy previously, and had the pleasure of stepping into his "Lair" to do so, I feel for him on this. He paid good money with the best of intentions, the bloke who took the money should drive down to Sydney and take the clubs and return his cash.

In my humble opinion, there is no way that the seller couldn't have known that the PXG Irons were fakes, he needs to be dealt with by the Soprano Crew.

Bastard Act.

[jwags]

Likewise. I’ve refunded people for change of mind, drunk clicking, ignorance and much more.

Apparently he has got the original seller to agree to refund him, out of which he will refund me. But I get the feeling it won’t be the full amount.

If what he says he paid is true I’d be surprised.

This is not right. You should not be waiting for him to get a refund for him to refund you. Also you shouldn't have to deal with the person who sold the clubs to him. He should come get the clubs from you and give you the cash back. Then he can sort out with the original seller. Also there is no way he has any right to not refund you the whole purchase price.
If he really had no clue they were fake then he should have no issue giving you the money back. Any hesitation on his end makes it seem fishy. On a positive note you know what club he plays at so push comes to shove could be waiting for him in the parking lot with the PXG clubs to return and just so happen to have a baseball bat wrapped in barb wire with you (or Cricket bat)I bet very few words would need to be exchanged before you have cash back in your hands.

[Planet Golf]

Agree entirely with JWAGS

the bloke who sold them must have known, he is a golfer, not just a Cash Converters type

This is not right. You should not be waiting for him to get a refund for him to refund you. Also you shouldn't have to deal with the person who sold the clubs to him. He should come get the clubs from you and give you the cash back. Then he can sort out with the original seller. Also there is no way he has any right to not refund you the whole purchase price.
If he really had no clue they were fake then he should have no issue giving you the money back. Any hesitation on his end makes it seem fishy. On a positive note you know what club he plays at so push comes to shove could be waiting for him in the parking lot with the PXG clubs to return and just so happen to have a baseball bat wrapped in barb wire with you (or Cricket bat)I bet very few words would need to be exchanged before you have cash back in your hands.

[Yossarian]

You'd waste more money and almost certainly not win in any legal setting. Caveat emptor and all that.

[markTHEblake]

You'd waste more money and almost certainly not win in any legal setting. Caveat emptor and all that.

for a start one would need professional certification that they are fakes, and there is only one place qualifed to provide that, and its a long way to go.

[sfdoddsy]

I'm still in negotiation with the chap who sold them to me and thus trying to be nice, but to answer some of the queries there is no doubt they are fakes.

As mentioned I currently have a set of PXG 0311XFs and whilst the clubs I bought were advertised as Gen 2s they are actually (fake) Gen 1s. They should have been identical to mine, but black.

Visually they have more offset, a thinner neck, and the PXG logo and club number are different.

When swinging them it is obvious that they are way lighter. Both Powergolf and Pureform measured the six iron at c6. My six iron which I bought direct from PXG and which has the same shaft is D2.

I tried them on course for what was meant to be a comp round but which was so awful I called it a day after 9 holes. I draw the ball, but was hooking the crap out of them.

On the LM at Powergolf I again hooked the crap out of them. The feel was completely different.

And then of course the distributors (Pureform) confirmed it.

The seller tried to suggest they were a special Korean version built ultra-light for smaller Oriental people, but he was clutching at straws.

I would have refunded the buyer no questions asked and whilst it seems he does plan on returning some of my money, the way he is tying it into the return of his money is galling to say the least.

On our last call he said it was my fault for being too trusting. When I asked if that meant he wasn't trustworthy there was embarassed silence.

So we'll see what I get back. After some detective work I now have all his details, including the club he belongs to, and I'm tempted to shame him, but it'll probably achieve nothing more than moderate revenge joy.

The big lesson is to buy on eBay (where he had them listed and currently has others now) not Gumtree or Facebook (where he also had them listed and apparently bought them from).

If I had done that eBay would have refunded my money without question and without recourse for him. Using Paypal would have made the process even simpler.

I'm OK buying from established members here, but once bitten etc.

[Webster]

The seller tried to suggest they were a special Korean version built ultra-light for smaller Oriental people, but he was clutching at straws.

Superb excuse.

[sfdoddsy]

Oh, and just to make things worse, PXG in the States are running a special CV19 sale at the moment.

0311 XFs are $155 a club.

So I could have bought a brand new set for less than I paid for the used fakes.

0211s are $95 a club.

[markTHEblake]

Oh, and just to make things worse, PXG in the States are running a special CV19 sale at the moment.

got a link to that special? i cant find anything.

[Daves]

got a link to that special? i cant find anything.

You have to go to the US version of the PXG site;

https://www.pxg.com/en-us