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  1. #51
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    I have said for a while that 'Tiger-proofing' courses by just making them longer is the most stupid decision ever. Lets make courses longer so that the long hitters get even more of an advantage ...

    I don't think that there should be a roll-back on equipment; I think that is a dangerous path for golf to take as the problem really doesn't affect the vast majority of players. And equally, who really cares if the pros shoot 20 under par at some obscure new course in Oklahoma. I agree completely with Bushy's comment that no-one wants to watch the US Open each week.

    However, I do think that there should be a more significant penalty with missing the fairway with driver on some of the classic older courses (i.e. St Andrews etc), but not to the ludicrous levels seen at US Opens. So the simple solution is to narrow the fairways at 300+ yards, and let the rough grow into a genuine hazard at that point. Keep fairways wide up to that point, but make the pros actually decide whether the reward of a shorter iron is worth the risk of potentially having to hack it out sideways. There are no significant costs associated with this change (i.e. re-routing holes, adding bunkers etc), and simply involves changing the mowing patterns a bit.

    One of Greg Norman's great strengths was not just how far he hit his driver - it was that he hit his driver both long and straight. If pros are able to hit their drive 300 yards+ into a 20 yard wide fairway, good luck to them. But make it back into a genuine 'risk/reward' consideration, rather than the current 'reward/reward' scenario.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by BUSHY View Post
    Just to clarify, Phil was leading and won the next day.
    I remember now. Cheers for that.

    Phil came out and admitted Casey made the correct call when interviewed afterwards.




  3. #53
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    Some sensible points here.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_6pSjuv-gE

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by BUSHY View Post
    Some interesting points in there, but he's still a ball manufacturer so of course he's going to push back against the roll back/bifurcation.

    I think the ball, drivers and course set up all need to be looked at in regards to how things move forward.

    I don't want to see 40 courses a year on tour with higher rough and softer fairways, it's boring. Riviera is great to watch, Trinity would have been good if they didn't dumb it down (aka soak the course and make it soft), you need courses where it's firmness is part of it's defence. Royal Melbourne at the President's Cup was a great example of that, now I know it's like a top 3 course in the world so it's not always feasible, but offline drives miss the fairway and roll in to poor areas when it's firm. If you soften the fairway, it might not go as far forward, but it also stops some wayward drives from being penalised.
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  5. #55
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    Bifurcation is the answer to a question I’ve yet to figure out.

  6. #56
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    A look at 40 or so years of Driver Tech advancement;


  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbad View Post
    Some interesting points in there, but he's still a ball manufacturer so of course he's going to push back against the roll back/bifurcation.

    I think the ball, drivers and course set up all need to be looked at in regards to how things move forward.

    I don't want to see 40 courses a year on tour with higher rough and softer fairways, it's boring. Riviera is great to watch, Trinity would have been good if they didn't dumb it down (aka soak the course and make it soft), you need courses where it's firmness is part of it's defence. Royal Melbourne at the President's Cup was a great example of that, now I know it's like a top 3 course in the world so it's not always feasible, but offline drives miss the fairway and roll in to poor areas when it's firm. If you soften the fairway, it might not go as far forward, but it also stops some wayward drives from being penalised.

    Even though he's a ball manufacturer he made some good points about the ball namely velocity is and has always been limited to a certain m/s which is interesting. Actually made me think a little differently about the ball.

  8. #58
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    Nice link Daves.





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  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by BUSHY View Post
    He's a smart guy who understands the science but his maths isn't so good and he doesn't understand what is happening at the grass roots level.
    The guys who are 40 yards behind the longest hitter wouldn't still be 40 yards behind the longest hitter. They would be the same percentage behind the longest hitter which would be a smaller distance.
    The roll is not the problem. Firm fairways make it more difficult for the long hitter running out of fairway. Long hitters love dart boards. This is why Royal Melbourne and British Opens are the best tournaments in the world because good play wins rather than long play.
    Distance is a bigger problem for clubs then it is for the tour. The unskilled long hitter is putting clubs in jeopardy. Clubs rarely had to worry about balls going through neighbours or passing cars windows. Rounds never took 5 hours because young blokes have to wait on all the par 5's and short par 4's. Scoring is actually the least important thing in this debate.
    Only after typing this post do I now realise how far away this guy is from getting it.
    Slow the ball down, shorten the longest club.
    Athletics had to slow down the javelin so it could still take part in the main stadium. Swimming had to stop the suits and running will have to stop these bouncy shoes. Golf authorities just need a spine.

  10. #60
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    Dean makes himself sound smart on the surface but im not so sure he has so much in depth knowledge about the game itself, stick to making golf balls dude

    making fairways softer will advantage the long hitters even more
    Last edited by thecollective; 27th February 2020 at 09:32 PM.

  11. #61
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    I'm bored enough to do some semi-trolling, based upon some of the many old tournament videos I've seen over the last week (and maybe will have watch again in six months when I've seen them all).

    Over the last few days I watched the 1991 Masters (won by Ian Woosnam) and the 2001 Masters (the Tiger Slam one). The comparison is stunning, and relevant, as for the most part they play the same distances.

    The 18th was 405yds, uphill as we all know, with two bunkers in the driving area on the left. In 1991, the players were either driving into the bunkers, or landing alongside them. In 2001, Tiger hit his drive 327yds, way past the bunkers and leaving lob wedge to the green.

    A number of things changed between 91 and 01. Metal drivers were only starting to come in in 1991, and many, including Woosnam, used persimmon (Maruman, believe it or not). By 2001, drivers weren't too much different to today. I'm not 100% sure when the ProV style ball came into play, but I suspect it was after 91 and before 01. The other difference was Tiger and the Tiger effect. He was more athletic, and probably stronger and fitter than almost anybody before him, and others followed. David Duval was runner up, and you can see the difference in body shape between him and Tiger compared to even Greg Norman and Nick Faldo.

    This time was the time when the distance horse bolted, and frankly its too late to change now.

    Besides, as these old films show, golf wasn't better then than it was now. It's about the same.
    "There are 50 things to remember in the golf swing. Trouble is that I can only remember 49 of them" - Bob Hope.

  12. #62
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    I think Tiger first used the solid core prov1 style ball in the 2000 US open. I'd agree, though, from watching old highlights, that golf isn't necessarily any worse to watch now that it used to be. Can't bring myself to watch the 96 masters though, watching it once live was bad enough, even 24 years on.
    Last edited by BobsYourUncle; 31st March 2020 at 05:53 PM.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimandr View Post
    Over the last few days I watched the 1991 Masters (won by Ian Woosnam) and the 2001 Masters (the Tiger Slam one). The comparison is stunning, and relevant, as for the most part they play the same distances
    Watch the 1979 Masters and see how hard Fuzzy Zoeller actually hit it. Impressive. and he pulls off parametric acceleration in spades (mabe you need to google that) more than 30 years before anyone had a name for it in golf.
    He is barely seen until the 18th hole, (and then a playoff) so just watch last 30 mins or so)

    The 18th was 405yds, uphill as we all know, with two bunkers in the driving area on the left. In 1991, the players were either driving into the bunkers, or landing alongside them. In 2001, Tiger hit his drive 327yds, way past the bunkers and leaving lob wedge to the green.
    Fuzzy's drive was around that distance too.

    I'm not 100% sure when the ProV style ball came into play, but I suspect it was after 91 and before 01.
    about 2000. I remember getting cheap Prov1s from a guy i worked with in '00 or '01 about a year after they launched.
    Last edited by markTHEblake; 31st March 2020 at 06:43 PM.
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  14. #64
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    Tour pros have always been consistently long,that's what separates them from us.Its not like they are superhuman,they are just a shit load better at what they do

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


 

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