The distance debate

[3Puttpete]

Golf officially says distance is a problem but nobody has any idea about how they’re going to fix it.

[SundayHack]

Golf officially says distance is a problem but nobody has any idea about how they’re going to fix it.

You should be asking yourself how are you going to fix your lack of distance in the upcoming Battle of the Bool

[JoeS]

More fairway bunkers.Clubbing on the tee is usually grab driver and swing.
Roll out is a big factor as well.Hard fairways in the landing zone,water the shit out of it and make them look for the occasional plugged ball
Long hitters will always be long,just make them think a bit more

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[Captain Nemo]

I don’t hit it that far, no problem for me....

[Minor_Threat]

Rollback of ball and equipment is the only way, it will only happen in pro and elite amateur level.

I would prefer a rollback for all personally.

[PerryGroves]

Rollback of ball and equipment is the only way, it will only happen in pro and elite amateur level.

I would prefer a rollback for all personally.

Mmmmm, I'd agree in an ideal world however the amateur game doesn't really have a problem, the distance problem exists at the professional level.

I would wager there has never been a greater gulf between the amateur and professional games.

Looking forward to the Masters Committee handing them all a Masters ball next year.

[pt73]

Or maybe some lawsuits like when Ping challenged the square groove rule and beat the USGA in court.

[BobsYourUncle]

I agree with others in that I don't think there's a problem at the regular amateur/club level. Rolling back here would hurt the game.

I can also see problems with bifurcation from both a manufacturer's and consumer's point of view - people want to play the same clubs/balls as the pros, and manufacturers want to cash in on this. Would it be the same if the pro's equipment only looked the same/similar, like the current V8s for example?

I also agree with some commentary I've read that said a large amount of the distance gain over the last 10 years or so has been due to increased fitness and training.

End of the day, reigning in the pro's distances wouldn't hurt, but anything that made the game harder than it already is for people like us would be a big mistake. I guess that means bifurcation is the only way forward? Manufacturers will push back, hard.

[Webster]

Or maybe some lawsuits like when Ping challenged the square groove rule and beat the USGA in court.

Never went to court. Good summary here: https://www.tutelman.com/golf/justgolf/squaregroove.php

A full rollback would be desirable. The vast majority of amateurs wouldn't notice any difference playing a rolled back ball.

Can't wait for the manufacturers to start bleating about this. If the Masters mandated their own ball for the toon-a-mint: "you play with this, or not at all" every single pro would still turn up.

[Dotty]

Alternatively, a local rule for PGA tour events limiting maximum clubs is 7 (or even 5), under the same umbrella as tour only local rules for line-of-site relief for marquis/signage/TV towers, or not allowed to change of ball models mid-round.

Club golfers and manufacturers are unaffected, and the best in the world will have to start thinking about their shots, rather than just monotonous point-and-swing robots with a club for every possible distance.

[JoeS]

Alot of people seem to be blaming manufacturers.If I had the budget,I could play the exact bag as Dustin Johnson.Would I be able to hit it as far as him,no way.Getting away from the equipment,the biggest change has been physical ability.Players spend more time and efforts than ever before on practice,gym work and nutrition.With the advent of personal trainers and sports nutritionists,computers and muscle specific workouts,no wonder they are hitting it long.Not to mention that when you see them on tv,I would hazard a guess that if you are anything less than 6 feet tall,you would be considered short.Most of the bombers on tour are 6'2" or taller,fit and strong


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[PerryGroves]

Not to mention that when you see them on tv, I would hazard a guess that if you are anything less than 6 feet tall, you would be considered short. Most of the bombers on tour are 6'2" or taller, fit and strong

Of the top ten in driving distance on the PGATour, only Bubba and Ryan Brehm (who??) are over 6"2". Harold Varner @175cms is one place ahead of Tony Finau @193cms.

Hard to imagine a better driver of the ball consistently than Rory who is 5"9"

[Ron Burgundy]

https://twitter.com/callawaygolfeu/s...524874245?s=21

Here’s Callaway saying the quiet part out loud. Or maybe it’s the fashion changes that led to the increased distance....

[3Puttpete]

My only problem with the rolll it back crowd is nobody ever says how far is too far. What’s the maximum distance somebody should be able to hit driver?

[markTHEblake]

I would hazard a guess that if you are anything less than 6 feet tall,you would be considered short.Most of the bombers on tour are 6'2" or taller,fit and strong

This is a really good point. Go back 30+ years and there were not many good tall golfers. Most of the great golfers are short by todays standard. Greg Normam was considered tall and he is only 6ft. I beleive its the combination of better fitness and equipment that has enabled many more taller and stronger golfers. Its the same in club golf. Some young men are hitting collossal distances the same as PGA tour.

[Grumpy8]

What’s wrong with some really tight doglegs that u can’t drive over or cut corners, landing areas uphill so it kills roll , water right across fairways , ditches / gullies across fairways at distances that restrict distances or make it a real risk reward shot . Isn’t there a 100 mtrpar 3 in one of the Brit open holes that the pros struggle with .Then limit the pro ball to today’s distances . Pro course should have a few of everything, drive it 350 straight and u set up an eagle miss and you get a 7 , to me nothing wrong with then having a hole that is two 7 irons perfectly hit to get a green in reg

[AndyP]

What’s wrong with ........

Probably the cost of completely redesigning a course.

[jimandr]

The distance debate is a load of hoohaa.

The real problem, for those who think there is a problem, is that the players are too good, as measured by the scores they shoot on courses that used to be considered hard.

Only a tiny but vocal minority actually care about the supposed integrity of the battle between the golf course and the golfer. Most of us don't care whether players are hitting 3 wood or 6 iron or 9 iron into par 4's, but we do care whether half the field are shooting 66 every round. So we blame the distance players are hitting it for the low scores.

I'm not sure it is true. My argument is that the top pro golfers have such great short games (and such good and accurate long games) that they score much better than the players of the past. Obviously the equipment plays a part, but the golfers of today are simply better than those of the past. Marc Leishman just shot a last round 65 to win on a really hard course while hitting 5 fairways. The real clue to that score is that the greens were soft.

In this so-called debate, nobody seems to be asking what the people want. My experience of attending pro tournaments is that the people on course want to see big hitting. Driveable par 4's are exciting. Cameron Champ attracts a crowd. Chez Reavie doesn't.

People who want the ball adjusted should be watching (and really enjoying) the LPGA and Champions Tour, because that seems to be the style of golf they want to see. Strangely, both tours set up their courses easy so the crowd sees birdies, instead of grinding out pars for a winning score of 6 under.

I think rolling back the ball would be a bad move for golf in general.

Rant over.

[PerryGroves]

Thought Stewart Cink summed things up well:

Cink, the 2009 British Open champ, doesn’t see the harm in amateurs hitting the ball longer, but he doesn’t support the potential of a local rule that would allow for different equipment at the elite level in competition.

“That sounds like bifurcation of the rules,” Cink said. “We (the PGA Tour) shouldn’t be in the rule-making business. I think playing by the same set of rules helps our fan base identify with us. They realize when they play the same equipment we do that golf is hard. I’m not saying nothing should be done, but I’m not sure if this reactive way of rolling things back is a real great idea.

“My caddie and I were just discussing this and what would bring it all back is a golf ball that didn’t go as straight, that curved more. Then you’re going to think twice about hitting driver. Hitting the ball straight should be a skill. You can’t deny that power is important, but that’s what makes a sport a sport. Tell me a sport where power isn’t important. Now, is it disproportionately important? That’s the question the ruling bodies have to answer.”

[BUSHY]

Finally.


“In summary, we believe that golf will best thrive over the next decades and beyond if this continuing cycle of ever-increasing hitting distances and golf course lengths is brought to an end. Longer distances, longer courses, playing from longer tees and longer times to play are taking golf in the wrong direction and are not necessary to make golf challenging, enjoyable or sustainable in the future”

[BUSHY]

Never went to court. Good summary here: https://www.tutelman.com/golf/justgolf/squaregroove.php

A full rollback would be desirable. The vast majority of amateurs wouldn't notice any difference playing a rolled back ball.

Can't wait for the manufacturers to start bleating about this. If the Masters mandated their own ball for the toon-a-mint: "you play with this, or not at all" every single pro would still turn up.

I fully agree.

[BUSHY]

My only problem with the rolll it back crowd is nobody ever says how far is too far. What’s the maximum distance somebody should be able to hit driver?

It’s got to be a combination.

COR/MOI for drivers
Compression/spin for balls.

Occasionally playing persimmons and balatas it’s easily understood that the spin and unforgiving nature of the clubs that makes the difference.

Not sure it will get that far but manufacturers really should start thinking about how they’re going to be part of the solution and not part of the problem.

[3Puttpete]

It’s got to be a combination. COR/MOI for driversCompression/spin for balls. Occasionally playing persimmons and balatas it’s easily understood that the spin and unforgiving nature of the clubs that makes the difference. Not sure it will get that far but manufacturers really should start thinking about how they’re going to be part of the solution and not part of the problem.

And what happens after you do that and they start hitting it as far as they do now?If you want to limit distance you have to put a limit on the distance. It’s pointless to say it goes to far without nominating where too far starts.

[BUSHY]

And what happens after you do that and they start hitting it as far as they do now?If you want to limit distance you have to put a limit on the distance. It’s pointless to say it goes to far without nominating where too far starts.

300 carry is where I would start-280 would make me happier, make a ball that is virtually impossible to hit that far and/or diabolically difficult to control.

Phil and DJ just prove how stupid/self centred pro golfers truly are. Golf is a game, just because you make money from it doesn’t mean you need to make the rules.

https://apple.news/A2veBGZ7aSjOIEI96nQz6yA

[3oneday]

I agree with a Jim. Age old debate that started with Tiger primarily, but apart from lengthening a few courses nothing has changed.

Same debate, different century.