The distance debate

[3Puttpete]

Golf officially says distance is a problem but nobody has any idea about how they’re going to fix it.

[SundayHack]

Golf officially says distance is a problem but nobody has any idea about how they’re going to fix it.

You should be asking yourself how are you going to fix your lack of distance in the upcoming Battle of the Bool

[JoeS]

More fairway bunkers.Clubbing on the tee is usually grab driver and swing.
Roll out is a big factor as well.Hard fairways in the landing zone,water the shit out of it and make them look for the occasional plugged ball
Long hitters will always be long,just make them think a bit more

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[Captain Nemo]

I don’t hit it that far, no problem for me....

[Minor_Threat]

Rollback of ball and equipment is the only way, it will only happen in pro and elite amateur level.

I would prefer a rollback for all personally.

[PerryGroves]

Rollback of ball and equipment is the only way, it will only happen in pro and elite amateur level.

I would prefer a rollback for all personally.

Mmmmm, I'd agree in an ideal world however the amateur game doesn't really have a problem, the distance problem exists at the professional level.

I would wager there has never been a greater gulf between the amateur and professional games.

Looking forward to the Masters Committee handing them all a Masters ball next year.

[pt73]

Or maybe some lawsuits like when Ping challenged the square groove rule and beat the USGA in court.

[Webster]

Or maybe some lawsuits like when Ping challenged the square groove rule and beat the USGA in court.

Never went to court. Good summary here: https://www.tutelman.com/golf/justgolf/squaregroove.php

A full rollback would be desirable. The vast majority of amateurs wouldn't notice any difference playing a rolled back ball.

Can't wait for the manufacturers to start bleating about this. If the Masters mandated their own ball for the toon-a-mint: "you play with this, or not at all" every single pro would still turn up.

[BUSHY]

Never went to court. Good summary here: https://www.tutelman.com/golf/justgolf/squaregroove.php

A full rollback would be desirable. The vast majority of amateurs wouldn't notice any difference playing a rolled back ball.

Can't wait for the manufacturers to start bleating about this. If the Masters mandated their own ball for the toon-a-mint: "you play with this, or not at all" every single pro would still turn up.

I fully agree.

[BobsYourUncle]

I agree with others in that I don't think there's a problem at the regular amateur/club level. Rolling back here would hurt the game.

I can also see problems with bifurcation from both a manufacturer's and consumer's point of view - people want to play the same clubs/balls as the pros, and manufacturers want to cash in on this. Would it be the same if the pro's equipment only looked the same/similar, like the current V8s for example?

I also agree with some commentary I've read that said a large amount of the distance gain over the last 10 years or so has been due to increased fitness and training.

End of the day, reigning in the pro's distances wouldn't hurt, but anything that made the game harder than it already is for people like us would be a big mistake. I guess that means bifurcation is the only way forward? Manufacturers will push back, hard.

[Dotty]

Alternatively, a local rule for PGA tour events limiting maximum clubs is 7 (or even 5), under the same umbrella as tour only local rules for line-of-site relief for marquis/signage/TV towers, or not allowed to change of ball models mid-round.

Club golfers and manufacturers are unaffected, and the best in the world will have to start thinking about their shots, rather than just monotonous point-and-swing robots with a club for every possible distance.

[Dotty]

Alternatively, a local rule for PGA tour events limiting maximum clubs is 7 (or even 5), under the same umbrella as tour only local rules for line-of-site relief for marquis/signage/TV towers, or not allowed to change of ball models mid-round.

Club golfers and manufacturers are unaffected, and the best in the world will have to start thinking about their shots, rather than just monotonous point-and-swing robots with a club for every possible distance.

I'm surprised the half-set fanatics haven't picked up on this.

Looking at the Augusta scorecard (excluding par 3s), a 300 yard drive will leave them with 50 to 275 yards to the pin on 14 holes.
Currently, pros can choose from 12 clubs to cover the required distance.
Restrict them to a half-set, and they are left with 5 clubs to cover 50 to 275 yards.

That will bring the strategy back into the game, with WITB, shot planning and execution.

[3Puttpete]

I'm surprised the half-set fanatics haven't picked up on this. Looking at the Augusta scorecard (excluding par 3s), a 300 yard drive will leave them with 50 to 275 yards to the pin on 14 holes. Currently, pros can choose from 12 clubs to cover the required distance. Restrict them to a half-set, and they are left with 5 clubs to cover 50 to 275 yards.That will bring the strategy back into the game, with WITB, shot planning and execution.

The half set fanatics don’t care how many anyone carries. It’s only the 14 club mafia who concern themselves with another’s bag. The mechanic suggest this last year, a Euro tour event with 10 clubs.

[JoeS]

Alot of people seem to be blaming manufacturers.If I had the budget,I could play the exact bag as Dustin Johnson.Would I be able to hit it as far as him,no way.Getting away from the equipment,the biggest change has been physical ability.Players spend more time and efforts than ever before on practice,gym work and nutrition.With the advent of personal trainers and sports nutritionists,computers and muscle specific workouts,no wonder they are hitting it long.Not to mention that when you see them on tv,I would hazard a guess that if you are anything less than 6 feet tall,you would be considered short.Most of the bombers on tour are 6'2" or taller,fit and strong


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[PerryGroves]

Not to mention that when you see them on tv, I would hazard a guess that if you are anything less than 6 feet tall, you would be considered short. Most of the bombers on tour are 6'2" or taller, fit and strong

Of the top ten in driving distance on the PGATour, only Bubba and Ryan Brehm (who??) are over 6"2". Harold Varner @175cms is one place ahead of Tony Finau @193cms.

Hard to imagine a better driver of the ball consistently than Rory who is 5"9"

[markTHEblake]

I would hazard a guess that if you are anything less than 6 feet tall,you would be considered short.Most of the bombers on tour are 6'2" or taller,fit and strong

This is a really good point. Go back 30+ years and there were not many good tall golfers. Most of the great golfers are short by todays standard. Greg Normam was considered tall and he is only 6ft. I beleive its the combination of better fitness and equipment that has enabled many more taller and stronger golfers. Its the same in club golf. Some young men are hitting collossal distances the same as PGA tour.

[Ron Burgundy]

https://twitter.com/callawaygolfeu/s...524874245?s=21

Here’s Callaway saying the quiet part out loud. Or maybe it’s the fashion changes that led to the increased distance....

[3Puttpete]

My only problem with the rolll it back crowd is nobody ever says how far is too far. What’s the maximum distance somebody should be able to hit driver?

[BUSHY]

My only problem with the rolll it back crowd is nobody ever says how far is too far. What’s the maximum distance somebody should be able to hit driver?

It’s got to be a combination.

COR/MOI for drivers
Compression/spin for balls.

Occasionally playing persimmons and balatas it’s easily understood that the spin and unforgiving nature of the clubs that makes the difference.

Not sure it will get that far but manufacturers really should start thinking about how they’re going to be part of the solution and not part of the problem.

[3Puttpete]

It’s got to be a combination. COR/MOI for driversCompression/spin for balls. Occasionally playing persimmons and balatas it’s easily understood that the spin and unforgiving nature of the clubs that makes the difference. Not sure it will get that far but manufacturers really should start thinking about how they’re going to be part of the solution and not part of the problem.

And what happens after you do that and they start hitting it as far as they do now?If you want to limit distance you have to put a limit on the distance. It’s pointless to say it goes to far without nominating where too far starts.

[BUSHY]

And what happens after you do that and they start hitting it as far as they do now?If you want to limit distance you have to put a limit on the distance. It’s pointless to say it goes to far without nominating where too far starts.

300 carry is where I would start-280 would make me happier, make a ball that is virtually impossible to hit that far and/or diabolically difficult to control.

Phil and DJ just prove how stupid/self centred pro golfers truly are. Golf is a game, just because you make money from it doesn’t mean you need to make the rules.

https://apple.news/A2veBGZ7aSjOIEI96nQz6yA

[Johnny Canuck]

300 carry is where I would start-280 would make me happier, make a ball that is virtually impossible to hit that far and/or diabolically difficult to control.

Phil and DJ just prove how stupid/self centred pro golfers truly are. Golf is a game, just because you make money from it doesn’t mean you need to make the rules.

https://apple.news/A2veBGZ7aSjOIEI96nQz6yA

DJ is self-centred because he said he didn’t want to read an 18 page email?

[Ron Burgundy]

It’s got to be a combination. COR/MOI for driversCompression/spin for balls. Occasionally playing persimmons and balatas it’s easily understood that the spin and unforgiving nature of the clubs that makes the difference. Not sure it will get that far but manufacturers really should start thinking about how they’re going to be part of the solution and not part of the problem.

I completely agree with this. It’s not really even about reducing distance necessarily. The longest drive ever on the PGA tour was done with persimmon and a wound ball. It’s about making the ball spin and the clubs less forgiving for the pros so there’s skill involved again. Driver used the be the hardest club to hit, now it’s the easiest. Good drivers are no longer rewarded to the same degree that they used to. A ball that spins rewards the best iron players too. Combining these two things will mean the best players can really separate themselves which is better to watch for everyone. So much better than 50 random pros hitting driver-wedge into everything and the winner solely being who has a hot putter that week. And who cares if it’s bifurcated. Most sports are. Doubt I can drive Louis Hamilton’s F1 car.

[3Puttpete]

I completely agree with this. It’s not really even about reducing distance necessarily. The longest drive ever on the PGA tour was done with persimmon and a wound ball. It’s about making the ball spin and the clubs less forgiving for the pros so there’s skill involved again. Driver used the be the hardest club to hit, now it’s the easiest. Good drivers are no longer rewarded to the same degree that they used to. A ball that spins rewards the best iron players too. Combining these two things will mean the best players can really separate themselves which is better to watch for everyone. So much better than 50 random pros hitting driver-wedge into everything and the winner solely being who has a hot putter that week. And who cares if it’s bifurcated. Most sports are. Doubt I can drive Louis Hamilton’s F1 car.

If the game is bifurcated it’s the amateurs who will be using distance limited equipment. The pro tours exist for the benefit of touring pros. They have little to no interest in what’s good for the game.

[Ron Burgundy]

If the game is bifurcated it’s the amateurs who will be using distance limited equipment. The pro tours exist for the benefit of touring pros. They have little to no interest in what’s good for the game.

Why do you assume this? In baseball it’s the pros who use distance limiting equipment and amateurs don’t.