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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce View Post


    Missed fairway adds 0.32 shots on average. (Average score on hole by those that hit fairway - average score of those that missed.)

    There are some more stats here on the difference between fairway and rough: https://www.pgatour.com/news/2016/05...d-defined.html
    This one has about 0.24 difference.

    Is 1/4 to 1/3 of a shot the right difference between a hit and missed fairway? Especially if your chance of a birdie increases the closer you are to the hole after your tee shot.
    Grow the rough

  2. #102
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    Spyglass hill is one of the hardest courses on the pga tour....so a fairway hit is not much easier than a fairway miss! Lies, damn lies and statistics
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  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by petethepilot View Post
    Spyglass hill is one of the hardest courses on the pga tour....so a fairway hit is not much easier than a fairway miss! Lies, damn lies and statistics
    Good point Pete. If a green is hard to hit no matter where you come from then that differential will decrease.

    Another alternative to making the rough more penal is to make the fairway more beneficial. The fairway bunkers that are 20m outside the fairway line are also bad for golf architecture.
    The secret of golf it to turn three shots in two. - Bobby Jones

    A tale of golfing mediocrity



  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by petethepilot View Post
    Spyglass hill is one of the hardest courses on the pga tour....so a fairway hit is not much easier than a fairway miss! Lies, damn lies and statistics
    And Pebble was set up for the ProAm event! The US Open stats will tell a different story because they will have grown the rough and narrowed the fairways!
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  5. #105
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    I am surprised nobody has bought this up
    https://www.golf.org.au/newsdisplay/...-debate/101709

    Lucas Herbert hit a range of shots with new/old clubs and new/old balls. The one thing that was most obvious to me, that in the day of wood drivers and balata balls, nobody swung like that, not even the biggest hitters. As Clayton pointed out, Graham Marsh was the perfect example of how to swing with that equipment, and he wasnt a short hitter.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Morri View Post
    All true Blakey, but if we follow that argument to its logical conclusion where do we end up?
    I don't know ! I do think something needs to be done though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
    So just make the courses longer and longer to cater for this evolution? Or make the holes narrower and more penal to punish long but wayward drives? Or accept that drive and pitch golf is the way of the future for tour pros?As realestate prices go up and popularity of golf goes down, what’s going to fund the extra land needed for the new longer courses?
    baseball and cricket did ban the aluminium bat quite quickly, thats a fairly good comparative example. Too late for golf though.
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  6. #106
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    Why don’t they grow rough all the way across fairways at the 280 m mark to the 340 m mark . Put some lumps in the greens and make sure the 3 footer has some speed n break in it . I think that would help some courses defend an easy par 4 . Golf courses shouldn’t be built on good farming land they should be built on poor or hilly crappy stuff make them way more interesting

  7. #107
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    Grumpy, the best courses are built on sand....forget hilly crappy stuff!
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  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by petethepilot View Post
    Grumpy, the best courses are built on sand....forget hilly crappy stuff!
    Ellerston ? I know sand is good , peninsular courses are good because they are on sand but a lot of the land isn’t good farming land not like a lot of the sandbelt courses are . Undulating with creeks gullies impenetrable scrub etc would make it easier to design courses and make them more strategic.

  9. #109
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    What if sand is in the title of the course, like Sandy Gallop?

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumpy8 View Post
    Ellerston ? I know sand is good , peninsular courses are good because they are on sand but a lot of the land isn’t good farming land not like a lot of the sandbelt courses are . Undulating with creeks gullies impenetrable scrub etc would make it easier to design courses and make them more strategic.
    Why?
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  11. #111
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    If u spent $10M designing/building a course and let 8 people a day play it....it should b fricken good!
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  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyP View Post
    What if sand is in the title of the course, like Sandy Gallop?

    Sand Hills...yes. Sandy Gallup...Yup!
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  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by petethepilot View Post
    If u spent $10M designing/building a course and let 8 people a day play it....it should b fricken good!
    Didn’t think that many played it , brother-in-law knew the green keeper pretty well but still couldn’t get a game

  14. #114
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    It shouldn’t even be rated! It is a rich man’s toy!
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  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyP View Post
    What if sand is in the title of the course, like Sandy Gallop?
    probably why they changed the name to Brisbane River
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  16. #116
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    I don't have any solution to the distance issue but I find PGA tour golf absolutely boring to watch....Would prefer to watch the LPGA no matter where the venue.

  17. #117
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    PGA tour depends on event, love Sentry tour of champions, players, us open, dell matchplay. Hate the Florida swing and playoffs.

    The best three events by a country mile: Masters, Open, Ryder Cup


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  18. #118
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    1986 Masters. Now this was exciting to watch.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vbsVaBDRtBI

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by markTHEblake View Post
    probably why they changed the name to Brisbane River
    That's Karana Downs.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by petethepilot View Post
    It shouldn’t even be rated! It is a rich man’s toy!
    It certainly was , the whole ellerston property was , 5 star accommodation for polo horses , underground heating for polo fields , place just oozed money , compared to all the other properties in the area

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by petethepilot View Post
    It shouldn’t even be rated! It is a rich man’s toy!
    I concur. But then the raters wouldn't have got their junket tour...

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  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by WBennett View Post
    I concur. But then the raters wouldn't have got their junket tour...
    From what I heard, the 'junket' was a 8+ hour return trip in a car full of farts....hardly the luxury that is touted

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by damoocow View Post
    I don't have any solution to the distance issue but I find PGA tour golf absolutely boring to watch....Would prefer to watch the LPGA no matter where the venue.
    There is a Clayton podcast https://podcast.iseekgolf.com/19 where he argues that the difference in distance on the women's tour is greater than the men's and they play them on overly short courses to ensure a close result. The end result being the longer hitters play driver and a bag of wedges.

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Courty View Post
    This...No one says "Christiano Ronaldo scores too often, we need to make the goals smaller" or "Stef Curry scores too much, we need to move the 3pt line and make the basket higher"

    I WANT to see the best in the world go to work and make birdies and eagles. If I want to watch someone struggle to make pars I'll go play golf with Solarman.
    I don’t mind watching a good birdie-feat.

    Much better than a tricked up US Open with rock hard greens rolling at 15.

    Quote Originally Posted by petethepilot View Post
    Major League Baseball got rid of Aluminium bats when everybody was smashing the ball out of the park!
    They had 2 choices...build new much bigger ballparks that cost heaps and have the fans further away from the action; or

    Return to wooden bats only! Pretty easy choice really!!!
    MLB was smart, they never allowed aluminium bats into the game to begin with.


    Quote Originally Posted by Yossarian View Post
    My childhood mostly.
    Step one is acknowledgment.

    Quote Originally Posted by 3puttpete View Post
    Grow the rough
    Deeper rough at 300m off the tee than 240m?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grumpy8 View Post
    Why don’t they grow rough all the way across fairways at the 280 m mark to the 340 m mark . Put some lumps in the greens and make sure the 3 footer has some speed n break in it . I think that would help some courses defend an easy par 4 . Golf courses shouldn’t be built on good farming land they should be built on poor or hilly crappy stuff make them way more interesting
    Lumps in the green would limit pin locations and slow down the game even more.




  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by thecollective View Post
    From what I heard, the 'junket' was a 8+ hour return trip in a car full of farts....hardly the luxury that is touted
    Ellerston is a long way from everywhere, and difficult to get do. Can't see how it could be classed as a junket when you pay your own way to get there, unless of course you have a nasty dose of rater envy.

    The course itself is good, but underwhelming. The par 5's especially are poor and destroy the myth that Norman and Harrison are great par 5 builders. The rest of the course is quite disjointed in places, unwalkable in others, and too difficult for players over say a 10 handicap. I was expecting it to be better than it was. The conditioning was impressive, but then again, they get to pick and choose when visitors see the course, so that has to be taken into consideration as well when forming an overall view of where the course should be on the lists.


 

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