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  1. #76
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    So far the only idea anyone has put forward is to reduce the distance the ball carries by 5-10%. What difference that will make is beyond me but at least it’s an idea.

    The rest of it is useless bleating based on some vague notion of how golf was played in 1990.

    Simple question. If they hit the ball too far, how far should they be allowed to hit it?

    If anyone wants to come up with some suggestions about what should happen to fix whatever they perceive is the problem I’m all ears. Until then, keep yelling at clouds.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbad View Post
    The way the green was designed to be played becomes redundant, just like the fairway bunkers placed at 270 yards to carry are now redundant.

    I'm guessing when the hypothetical course was designed, it was done so with certain shots in mind, certain strategies to be used. When the ball flies so far off the tee, those strategies become void.

    Watching people hit longer irons in to greens as they were designed is a skill that is being lost in the game. I don't think anyone here is questioning the score.
    Yep, 400 years ago a fairway bunker was put in a spot because it was a problem. 350 years ago that fairway bunker was being cleared off the tee?

    Do you want to limit distance so nobody can clear the shortest fairway bunker in the world?

  3. #78
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    I found the last PGA tour event pretty interesting, I mustn't overthink it as much as you guys. The elite are the elite, the rest of us battle against whatever demons hold us back.

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    The ball needs to be rolled back and club head sizes reduced. Distances to be capped at pre 2000 distances.In addition that the above, courses to play firmer and faster. The world can't sustain the watering that currently takes place..

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3puttpete View Post
    Yep, 400 years ago a fairway bunker was put in a spot because it was a problem. 350 years ago that fairway bunker was being cleared off the tee?

    Do you want to limit distance so nobody can clear the shortest fairway bunker in the world?
    Or do we spend millions and millions of dollars buying land and building new courses every few years because the new guys hit it 20-30 yards further every 2/3 years.

    Granted, 90% of amateur golfers aren't going to have to worry about their ball going too far. But if we are talking about the professional game then it's certainly a discussion worth having.

    Again, we are not saying that everyone should be at the same level, because longer hitters have always had the advantage. Length is a skill, but it shouldn't be the only skill you need.
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  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minor_Threat View Post
    The ball needs to be rolled back and club head sizes reduced. Distances to be capped at pre 2000 distances.In addition that the above, courses to play firmer and faster. The world can't sustain the watering that currently takes place..
    So no change to golf up to 1999 was a problem? Cool.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3puttpete View Post
    So no change to golf up to 1999 was a problem? Cool.
    It is about this time things started to get out of control i.e. Pro V1, oversized, high COR.Have you watched much pro golf from pre 2000?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minor_Threat View Post
    It is about this time things started to get out of control i.e. Pro V1, oversized, high COR.Have you watched much pro golf from pre 2000?
    Yep, that was the birth of the Prov1 which has been the biggest change in the game of golf probably ever. Was listening to something just a few weeks back in which multiple players stated that as soon as they hit the ProV1 they gained 20-30 yards instantly.
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  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minor_Threat View Post
    It is about this time things started to get out of control i.e. Pro V1, oversized, high COR.Have you watched much pro golf from pre 2000?
    Nope. I don’t watch old sport.

    Quote Originally Posted by Minor_Threat View Post
    Very happy for Tiger, golf is better with him competing and contending.
    Interesting

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3puttpete View Post
    Nope. I don’t watch old sport. Interesting
    So you have nothing to compare against, you shouldnt be debating this. What does an old quote of mine have to do with anything? Is Tiger supposed to use 20yo equipment while the rest have the latest stuff?
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    He's probably referring to how the courses were "Tiger proofed" when he started winning all his majors, but now it seems we want to everyone proof.

    MAFS is more entertaining than this debate

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minor_Threat View Post
    So you have nothing to compare against, you shouldnt be debating this. What does an old quote of mine have to do with anything? Is Tiger supposed to use 20yo equipment while the rest have the latest stuff?
    I’m not debating anything, I’m trying to work out what changes you all want.

    As for the quote, I find it interesting you think golf is better when the bloke most responsible for the need to Tiger proof courses is contending.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3puttpete View Post
    I’m not debating anything, I’m trying to work out what changes you all want.

    As for the quote, I find it interesting you think golf is better when the bloke most responsible for the need to Tiger proof courses is contending.
    Tiger didn't invent the ball that changed the way golf was played...
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  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbad View Post
    Tiger didn't invent the ball that changed the way golf was played...
    Ok. From now on I’ll use the phrase Pro v1 proof courses, not Tiger proof.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3puttpete View Post
    I’m not debating anything, I’m trying to work out what changes you all want. As for the quote, I find it interesting you think golf is better when the bloke most responsible for the need to Tiger proof courses is contending.
    I told you what I think needs to happen. It is more interesting, doesn't mean I agree with how far the ball goes or how the modern game is played.Tiger in the early 2000s, wasn't hitting it as far as the blokes are now!
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  16. #91
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    There are members at my local who hit it further than I do. I can't stand playing and watching them hit it so far over bunkers, while I'm landing in them.

    Rein in the distances!
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  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeftyHoges View Post
    There are members at my local who hit it further than I do. I can't stand playing and watching them hit it so far over bunkers, while I'm landing in them.

    Rein in the distances!
    Isn’t more shots and wiping before the green your preferred outcome?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3puttpete View Post
    Isn’t more shots and wiping before the green your preferred outcome?
    Not anywhere non-#linksy
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    Tennis players should be forced to use old wooden racquets, athletes forced to wear Dunlop volleys, cyclist forced to take ped’s. Sport was better in the old days

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  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minor_Threat View Post
    I told you what I think needs to happen. It is more interesting, doesn't mean I agree with how far the ball goes or how the modern game is played.Tiger in the early 2000s, wasn't hitting it as far as the blokes are now!
    Rightio. Let’s take 20m off their drives. Fixed. Now we can move on

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    Just make the modern ball spin more! That will force the pro’s to dial back the speed because the tee shots will be harder to control AND it will help the club golfer who is sub 100mph with the driver! Anybody in that swingspeed range should not be using the ProV1. Titleist is lying to you if you think that is the best ball for slower swing speed players! Low spin only works when u have enough swing speed to keep the ball in the air!
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    All true Blakey, but if we follow that argument to its logical conclusion where do we end up?

    Quote Originally Posted by markTHEblake View Post
    it was originally called Bogey, and some holes were measured in halves, like a '4.5'

    The first "open championship" was played over 36 holes (3 x 12). in todays terms, that would equal a 5700 yard 18 hole course played twice, and if it was a Par 72, then winning score would have been +30 over 'par'. Prestwick now hasnt hosted the Open for nearly 100 years, yet its still hosted more than any other except St Andrews.

    in golf, the 'old' courses have always become outdated as technology allowed the golf ball to go further. from the feathery to the gutta percha, then to the rubber core ball had greater impacts on the game than what we have seen today. Any golf purists arguing that the long distances of today are ruining the game are in denial, becuause the 'game' they want to preserve, already destroyed the previous 'game'. Its evolution.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SundayHack View Post
    Tennis players should be forced to use old wooden racquets, athletes forced to wear Dunlop volleys, cyclist forced to take ped’s. Sport was better in the old days
    Interestingly they've already reined in the ball speed for tennis on certain court types to prevent it becoming soley a case of he who has the fastest serve wins...

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    Quote Originally Posted by hippo10 View Post
    Interestingly they've already reined in the ball speed for tennis on certain court types to prevent it becoming soley a case of he who has the fastest serve wins...
    But the speed on the courts have been getting a lot slower over the years including Aussie open and us open. My guess for TV and rally's, but like golf players are becoming more 'athletic' as it's $$$ increases and it's a job not something you play very well (most sports now).

    As for the wind back argument, I can see both sides.

    However I look at the current ladies game as close to 20 years ago men's game. They are hitting hybrids and long irons into holes at times, and some holes are driver wedge or even driveable, seems to be more of a mix to me anyway.

    But their scores are still massively under par even when they are hitting it 'only' 280m for the long hitters. They are good, really good, the 1% of 1%, and no matter the challenge they are able to go low.

    I don't recall seeing the players or viewers demanding they go to the back markers to lengthen it all and have them shoot even par. I would most likely be labelled as sexist.

    I also see that 'viewers' want to see the current best to take on historical courses as players did 40 years ago and 'compare' how X would go against Y but it's just not going to happen. The ball is the major factor, but we are too far gone now.

    Personally, I like to watch entertaining golf and seeing someone have 64,65,67,66 -20 or whatever it may come to looks like they have torn it apart, but if the top 30 players are all -15 or better, then the 'par' for the course as a whole isn't par for the pros. It's the designers par but that may have been a long time ago not relevant to today's game, or to the masses who will play the course and not just one week a year, and that's not their fault or the players now's fault.

    Make some par 5's par 4's because that's all they are for the pros and us crappy players can get an extra shot. Do the same for a short par 4. Maybe scrap the idea that you need 2 putts. Make a 300m par 4 into a par 3 and trouble all around it. Shorter hitters can hit small wedge in and bombers go for it with bunkers all around. Not nice bunkers, magenta crap fights.

    Don't we add shots already for the ladies on long par 4's to make them 5's?? (Locally anyway)

    The masses in the US control that game, and it seems they want a birdie fest. Entertainment for majority is going to outweigh what a small percentage of 'pureists' wants, and that's the reality of it.

    It's business and it may not be right for everyone, but as non pro's trying to earn a living, we do have the ability to play courses we love (like Newcastle golf club for me) with clubs from the 1980's and think 'wow they were good' and if that's the enjoyment we get, then power to us. Golf is more than just watching really good players.

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    Missed fairway adds 0.32 shots on average. (Average score on hole by those that hit fairway - average score of those that missed.)

    There are some more stats here on the difference between fairway and rough: https://www.pgatour.com/news/2016/05...d-defined.html
    This one has about 0.24 difference.

    Is 1/4 to 1/3 of a shot the right difference between a hit and missed fairway? Especially if your chance of a birdie increases the closer you are to the hole after your tee shot.
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