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12th December 2018 12:01 PM
#1
Senior Member
Touring Pro (PGA)
State of golf coaching in Australia
Having invested in quite a large sum of money on golf lessons this year and quite a lot of time in practice (given I work 55 hours a week in a busy ED), I must say I’ve been a little disappointed in the level of coaching in general.
Like the thread about the Lakes golf course and course architecture, I’m hoping a teaching pro will jump in and give us his perspective.
I have received little nuggets of information from each coach and from my home course pro, who I have regular lessons with, I am learning to play golf rather than the golf swing.
Having said that, I’ve been left to my own devices to put the pieces together.
Not one coach looked at my grip. I found out that I had a gap between my left thumb pad and the grip causing my left hand to move on the grip during the swing.
No one checked any mobility restrictions I had and figure out how that may have affected my swing. For example, I tend to stop my body rotation too early in the backswing causing my arms to become disconnected from my body. I’ve been told to put a glove under my right armpit or left armpit or both, make a bigger hip turn in the backswing and just plain “don’t swing that far back”.
Through a trainer, I found I had a big restriction in neck rotation. I could only turn my head around 45 deg. So I’ve been working on this and doing some neck stretching and mobility exercises for last few weeks. I can already see a big difference in my backswing pivot and arms are staying connected more. Tempo has naturally become more even instead to rushing the transition as my arms get disconnected.
I don’t think golf coaches need to be physical therapists but I think they should do a rudimentary mobility screen before they start teaching the swing. Some anatomical movements in golf are close to end range for most people. These include hip internal rotation (especially the left hip for right handed golfers as we follow through), thoracic rotation, cervical rotation, and right shoulder external rotation (watch Ben Hogan during transition). These at least should be looked at.
I think part of the reason that most coaches are “tips” based is because of the golfing public who don’t see the value in long term lessons and just want a quick fix. Compare this to something like playing a musical instrument. If you took up playing the guitar, you’d likely have weekly lessons until certain level has been attained and then still have regular catch up lessons afterwards. Why is golf any different?
Sorry about the long rant but I’d love to see the level of coaching stepping up a level in general.
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12th December 2018 12:27 PM
#2
Senior Member
Touring Pro (European Tour)
Didn't know that golf is that hard! I’ll give you some advice, find a single plane swing coach and Good luck !
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12th December 2018 12:39 PM
#3
Senior Member
Touring Pro (PGA)
Originally Posted by
Coldtopper
Didn't know that golf is that hard! I’ll give you some advice, find a single plane swing coach and Good luck !
Thanks mate.If you’re talking about Jim Hardy stuff, I’ve read his book and from what I read, it wouldn’t be a good match for someone like me with restrictions in rotation.I think high level golf is very difficult.
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12th December 2018 02:10 PM
#4
Senior Member
Touring Pro (PGA)
Having read it again, I think the title of this thread was a bit harsh.
It’s more a case of “wouldn’t it be better if they did it this way?”
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12th December 2018 03:43 PM
#5
Senior Member
Golf Hall of Fame Inductee
I actually think you're looking for the pot at the end of the rainbow.
I'm being serious, maybe you should save your cash for a year and try to attend one of the US clinics with Hank Haney, Dave Pelz or someone like that? Prep them by emailing them what YOU want out of the lesson firstly and if they reply, judge if their response is what you want.
I've tried to find someone really great here in Australia too but there are no standouts, no week long golfing camps where you get one on one time and stuff like that.
I don't think what you want exists here.
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12th December 2018 04:40 PM
#6
Senior Member
Touring Pro (Nationwide Tour)
The free golf mag given out at clubs has several ads nearly every month about coaching clinics and camps . There is also the golf university that does online and weekend camps . I subscribe to the “ pga digital golf academy “ and I find it very helpful. I go to Rohan Dummett at MGA and have done so nearly 5 yrs and have brought my cap down from 17 to 6 . I had only been a part time golfer for 30 odd years of which I hadn’t played at all in the last 14 of that . Started back 6 yrs ago , started with just quick fixes and band aids to fix things like a snap hook , would drop some shots but then drift back out ,got sick of it and asked what I could do to fix the consistency. Blunt answer was change my swing and get on plane . So at 58 yrs old I rebuilt my swing and am much more on plane . It takes time even with continual practice it can take six months to bed in a swing change . As I couldn’t commit to the amount of work it took me a year to bed the swing changes in , I broke down to 6.8 when I did . Had a (minor) hiccup with my back , when I started again I had lost a lot of my gains , with Rohan’s help I have got it back and am now on 6.3 . I fix one fault at a time , we spend a fair bit of time looking at video of my swing discussing what position I am in and where I should be , he gives me drills to do and explains what it’s going to achieve. The last fault I am fixing is a reverse pivot , I don’t go to driving ranges any more so I work on things at home or on course . My scores at the moment are all over the place and it’s taking ages to fix , but my objective is consistency and club champs next October.My advice to you is get it clear in your head what you want to achieve, find a trusted pro with results on the board , discuss things and most importantly understand what it is you are doing . Google it go on you tube get info on what it is but understand what you are trying to change .Most golfers just nod yes yes ,do the tip find it works for a while but because they don’t understand it ,after a month they go back to their bad habits. Pro’s offer quick fixes because golfers want immediate results long term changes take time and work . 100 swings a day for six months to fix a fault and ingrain the change
Last edited by Grumpy8; 12th December 2018 at 04:43 PM.
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12th December 2018 05:41 PM
#7
Senior Member
Order of Merit winner
Most coaching is a waste of time. Buy some new clubs instead.
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12th December 2018 05:53 PM
#8
Senior Member
Golf Hall of Fame Inductee
Yep, that too
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12th December 2018 06:03 PM
#9
Senior Member
Order of Merit winner
Originally Posted by
3oneday
Yep, that too
Be careful though - nothing worse than ending up with the golf quinella of death - getting sucked into Golf Machine lessons and buying Henry Griffits clubs!
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12th December 2018 06:04 PM
#10
Senior Member
Touring Pro (European Tour)
Find a swing that keeps the ball in play and concentrate on your short game..AFAIK golf pros are not really trained to identify mobility shortcomings.
Last edited by Minor_Threat; 12th December 2018 at 06:07 PM.
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12th December 2018 06:51 PM
#11
Senior Member
Touring Pro (Nationwide Tour)
One of my mates sees an ex Tour pro who’s also a certified trainer who runs golf specific classes for his pupils.
He also created a book of golf specific exercises that he gave to all his pupils and tells the pupils which ones they should do.
He’s the first teaching pro I’ve seen offer such a complete range of services.
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12th December 2018 06:59 PM
#12
Senior Member
Touring Pro (European Tour)
Jono: based on my own experiences I would have to agree with you on the whole....
But having met you my instinct suggests you're flooding your head with too much theory and not enough common sense / instinct
I think you need to spend some time at home, feeling the club, getting an idea of wrist angles, practising very short chips on the lawn aiming for no divots
I have been doing the above for about 3 months now and have started to get the handicap back to where it once was
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12th December 2018 08:05 PM
#13
Senior Member
Touring Pro (PGA)
Originally Posted by
pt73
One of my mates sees an ex Tour pro who’s also a certified trainer who runs golf specific classes for his pupils.He also created a book of golf specific exercises that he gave to all his pupils and tells the pupils which ones they should do.He’s the first teaching pro I’ve seen offer such a complete range of services.
Who’s that mate?
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12th December 2018 08:42 PM
#14
Senior Member
Touring Pro (PGA)
Originally Posted by
thecollective
Jono: based on my own experiences I would have to agree with you on the whole....But having met you my instinct suggests you're flooding your head with too much theory and not enough common sense / instinctI think you need to spend some time at home, feeling the club, getting an idea of wrist angles, practising very short chips on the lawn aiming for no divotsI have been doing the above for about 3 months now and have started to get the handicap back to where it once was
I understand what you are saying but I’m actually not analytical when I play. I’ve been down to six in the past and I could probably get down there again without any more lessons and just working on some course management and practicing short game.But I want a more reliable swing with sound mechanics where I can then forget about all the mechanics on the course and just aim/fire.My main issue atm is the club face shutting down too quickly (ie flip). When I go on the flightscope, my club path is pretty consistent shot to shot but the face varies quite a lot.I’ve done the split hand drill, impact drills etc but in the end, if my mechanics don’t change, I’ll always tend to be inconsistent day to day.Perfect example was at the QLD champs. I played very well at Kooralbyn and hit fade after fade even on narrow fairways. 2 days later at Pac Harbour, I couldn’t hit a fairway to save my life! Some of my shots were going 100 meters left!
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12th December 2018 10:14 PM
#15
Senior Member
Touring Pro (Nationwide Tour)
Originally Posted by
Jono
Who’s that mate?
Ken Druce at Royal Sydney not sure if he teaches elsewhere.
Really nice guy too and has some YouTube golf fitness videos.
Last edited by pt73; 12th December 2018 at 10:26 PM.
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13th December 2018 08:28 AM
#16
Senior Member
Touring Pro (European Tour)
Originally Posted by
Jono
I understand what you are saying but I’m actually not analytical when I play. I’ve been down to six in the past and I could probably get down there again without any more lessons and just working on some course management and practicing short game.But I want a more reliable swing with sound mechanics where I can then forget about all the mechanics on the course and just aim/fire.My main issue atm is the club face shutting down too quickly (ie flip). When I go on the flightscope, my club path is pretty consistent shot to shot but the face varies quite a lot.I’ve done the split hand drill, impact drills etc but in the end, if my mechanics don’t change, I’ll always tend to be inconsistent day to day.Perfect example was at the QLD champs. I played very well at Kooralbyn and hit fade after fade even on narrow fairways. 2 days later at Pac Harbour, I couldn’t hit a fairway to save my life! Some of my shots were going 100 meters left!
Most ppl who have trouble flipping the club struggle to transition the weight off the right foot letting the arms arrive too early. I had this issue for about the last 2 years due to DVT in my left leg (left handed).
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13th December 2018 09:56 AM
#17
I agree with you Jono, coaches should look at the mobility of the player as a starting point. There's no one swing that works for amateurs and too often I've found proud are trying to teach a tour swing to people who just can't achieve the same positions. Having said that I have encountered some pros that do this. I think as well that when you start with a coach if you ask them to frame their lessons based on what your body is capable of they will do so.
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13th December 2018 11:09 AM
#18
Senior Member
Touring Pro (Nationwide Tour)
It’s funny that teaching pros don’t come onto forums or if they do they don’t last long . I wonder why that is ? Could it be we know more than them ? Could it be we think they are all hopeless? Could it be we only want to find the magic bullet ? Best two bits of advice I heard , 5 cap telling a new 27 cap “ golf is about six inches “ - the distance between your ears “Golf swing keep it simple “ - straight back straight thru That was 45 yrs ago I have added one to it “ six inch putt counts the same on the score card as a 300 yard drive “
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13th December 2018 11:21 AM
#19
Victorious Captain
Golf Hall of Fame Inductee
I think the older generation of coaches are outdated if they aren’t using the latest technology, Trackman, Flightscope or the like.
Just my 2 cents but I’d never do a full swing lesson with someone without this gear.
The way you see things, then the ability for them to email your swing with commentary for you to go over and see and re create is the way to go IMO.
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13th December 2018 01:01 PM
#20
Senior Member
Touring Pro (PGA)
Originally Posted by
Grumpy8
It’s funny that teaching pros don’t come onto forums or if they do they don’t last long . I wonder why that is ? Could it be we know more than them ? Could it be we think they are all hopeless? Could it be we only want to find the magic bullet ? Best two bits of advice I heard , 5 cap telling a new 27 cap “ golf is about six inches “ - the distance between your ears “Golf swing keep it simple “ - straight back straight thru That was 45 yrs ago I have added one to it “ six inch putt counts the same on the score card as a 300 yard drive “
I think you’ve missed my point. It’s not that I think that I know more than golf coaches. I’m questioning the way golf is taught. If someone comes to you for one single lesson, yeah sure, give them the biggest bang for their buck. Give them a tip that will counteract their slice or hook or whatever, even if you know that sooner or later, it will break down cause you haven’t addressed the real cause. But when someone comes to you wanting to invest their time and money to learn to play this game as well as they can and wants to have long term coaching with you, you should have a well thought out plan to help him achieve this. And the list of golf-“isms” you listed illustrate some of the problems with golf coaching. You can’t teach a game with simple “isms”. Eg golf is played between the ears ... yes as you play more golf, you get to appreciate this, but tell this to a guy making a big over the top move and flipping at the ball and he’ll likely give up the game thinking he doesn’t have the brain for this game or become very negative about the game. I’ll compare golf to playing a musical instrument again. You go to an instructor wanting to learn and master the instrument, he won’t tell you it’s played between the ears. He’ll assess your skills, take you through the fundamentals and give you drills to master each stage before moving onto more difficult skills.
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13th December 2018 01:04 PM
#21
Senior Member
Touring Pro (PGA)
Originally Posted by
Captain Nemo
I think the older generation of coaches are outdated if they aren’t using the latest technology, Trackman, Flightscope or the like.Just my 2 cents but I’d never do a full swing lesson with someone without this gear.The way you see things, then the ability for them to email your swing with commentary for you to go over and see and re create is the way to go IMO.
Agreed. I think these tools are starting to become essential. You just can’t see some things with the naked eye.
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13th December 2018 02:22 PM
#22
Senior Member
Touring Pro (Nationwide Tour)
Jono Just trying to be helpful. Others have suggested you keep it simple. I will give you another “ism” the pursuit of the perfect swing has ruined many golfers . Ask baker finch about chasing an extra 10 metres in his game ,I ruined my game in my mid twenties by trying to be the longest driver at my club second longest wasn’t good enough . Having said that I agree that pros don’t go about things the right way a lot of the times , you are probably wanting something the regular club golfer doesn’t ask for ( a plan ) think you might have to do another “ism” kiss a lot of toads until you find your prince .
Think you are going have to ask they aren’t going to offer .
One last nugget, club champ at local club plays off +1 , went to AIS a few years ago quit after awhile swing “ruined” . All industries have good and bad instructors
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13th December 2018 03:52 PM
#23
Senior Member
Touring Pro (PGA)
Originally Posted by
Grumpy8
Jono Just trying to be helpful. Others have suggested you keep it simple. I will give you another “ism” the pursuit of the perfect swing has ruined many golfers . Ask baker finch about chasing an extra 10 metres in his game ,I ruined my game in my mid twenties by trying to be the longest driver at my club second longest wasn’t good enough . Having said that I agree that pros don’t go about things the right way a lot of the times , you are probably wanting something the regular club golfer doesn’t ask for ( a plan ) think you might have to do another “ism” kiss a lot of toads until you find your prince .Think you are going have to ask they aren’t going to offer . One last nugget, club champ at local club plays off +1 , went to AIS a few years ago quit after awhile swing “ruined” . All industries have good and bad instructors
Hey man, sorry if I came across as a ungrateful know it all POS. I appreciate the tips from your experience and observations as a golfer. And I may well end up taking the KISS approach and just practice my short game. 😊
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13th December 2018 11:08 PM
#24
Senior Member
Touring Pro (Nationwide Tour)
Originally Posted by
Jono
Hey man, sorry if I came across as a ungrateful know it all POS. I appreciate the tips from your experience and observations as a golfer. And I may well end up taking the KISS approach and just practice my short game. 😊
Nothing wrong with the pursuit of excellence but be careful with getting to technical unless that is what floats your boat . Am sure I have seen ads for Terry Price in golf mags , he was a good touring pro and should be able to do a plan ( as he would have had one ) . No idea what sort of teaching pro he is tho . My advice work on your short game and get yourself a good solid swing ( on plane - straight back straight thru) and if you have to do it yourself.Mike Weir ( hope that’s his name ) was my pro at Windaroo when I lived in Brisbane I think he is still teaching he seemed very good . Lastly Rohan Dummet is on Facebook or Twitter I believe
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14th December 2018 01:05 AM
#25
Originally Posted by
Captain Nemo
I think the older generation of coaches are outdated if they aren’t using the latest technology, Trackman, Flightscope or the like.
Just my 2 cents but I’d never do a full swing lesson with someone without this gear.
The way you see things, then the ability for them to email your swing with commentary for you to go over and see and re create is the way to go IMO.
Originally Posted by
Jono
Agreed. I think these tools are starting to become essential. You just can’t see some things with the naked eye.
I agree that tech can be useful but in conjunction with "visual" cues. When I hit shots on a launch monitor indoors for instance, I can see all the numbers but because I'm not using one all day every day, I don't always know how that equates to ball flight on the course. I have to see the ball flight to know if I like what I'm doing. Everyone has a different visual "window" they want to hit with their shots so if you can't get the flight you want, it doesn't matter what the LM says, it's not going to help you.
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