Ask Mac

[Toxic]

moved from Aus Open thread

2 was a par 4 in 1980 and 3 was a 5. - and TWP changed 2 it to a 5 and 3 to a 4. We took the 2nd back to a 4, left 3 as a 4 and got the par back to 72 (not that we cared about the par) .The 5th green was redone by Newton,Grant and Spencer post 1980 to move it away from the boundary. We put it back a little closer to the original place.And the course was a lot more open but the tree planting had already begun - when the original course was windswept and open just like the old Australian. And we put the 18th green back on the ground as it was in 1980 - as opposed to the two elevated versions of Grant and Thomson.

Mac, quick query, when a hole is designed, how many pin placements are designed for? Does it vary from Par 3s to par 5s?Cheers

[thecollective]

Hi Mac

I have noticed that the vast majority of your designs contain a bunker set that is shaped like a natural scar of the surface, my assumption is your replicating a hazard that has been created by mother nature as opposed to a human

Have you ever considered or been in a position to design conventional/more circular bunker shapes to accommodate existing golf course designs?

If this is not your preference why do you choose to design bunkers the way you currently do

I find your bunkers are always the hardest to get out of! (not saying that its a bad thing, it's called a hazard for a reason)

[Mike Clayton]

Hi Mac

I have noticed that the vast majority of your designs contain a bunker set that is shaped like a natural scar of the surface, my assumption is your replicating a hazard that has been created by mother nature as opposed to a human

Have you ever considered or been in a position to design conventional/more circular bunker shapes to accommodate existing golf course designs?

If this is not your preference why do you choose to design bunkers the way you currently do

I find your bunkers are always the hardest to get out of! (not saying that its a bad thing, it's called a hazard for a reason)

Examples of what you are talking about are always good. We have down a lot on the sandbelt so they fit with that traditional look.
We did small, round, pot bunkers at Torquay and the bunkers at both Royal Queensland and The Lakes are different again.
The aim ought to be to find a style suiting each piece of land - not repeating the same look over and over.

[benno_r]

Examples of what you are talking about are always good. We have down a lot on the sandbelt so they fit with that traditional look.
We did small, round, pot bunkers at Torquay and the bunkers at both Royal Queensland and The Lakes are different again.
The aim ought to be to find a style suiting each piece of land - not repeating the same look over and over.

Speaking of RQ, we played a round of our QLD champs there recently, and the green complexes were polarising (love/hate) amongst the group.

After seeing the Lakes, it appears they are not as severe, but do you have any insight as to the intent of what was done at RQ, particularly the greens?

[Mike Clayton]

Speaking of RQ, we played a round of our QLD champs there recently, and the green complexes were polarising (love/hate) amongst the group.

After seeing the Lakes, it appears they are not as severe, but do you have any insight as to the intent of what was done at RQ, particularly the greens?

RQ - Wide fairways. Almost no rough. Centre-line hazards on quite a few holes. And - some severe greens to advantage those who drove to the right part of the fairway and who hit good irons. Hit it far from the hole and the putting is difficult. And there are plenty of great,old severe greens. The critics seem to thing it's a new thing.

[thecollective]

Examples of what you are talking about are always good.

As requested, examples taken from RQ, The Lakes and Bonnie Doon respectively

All resemble natural scarring (IMO)

Screen Shot 2018-11-22 at 2.58.04 pm.jpgScreen Shot 2018-11-22 at 2.48.35 pm.jpgScreen Shot 2018-11-22 at 2.55.38 pm.jpg

[Mike Clayton]

As requested, examples taken from RQ, The Lakes and Bonnie Doon respectively

All resemble natural scarring (IMO)

Attachment 48683Attachment 48684Attachment 48685

RQ has a lot of those 'trench' bunkers - but it's not something we have done very often. There are a few at Bonnie Doon. Nowhere near as many though.
They work well though - I think anyway.

[thecollective]

RQ has a lot of those 'trench' bunkers - but it's not something we have done very often. There are a few at Bonnie Doon. Nowhere near as many though.
They work well though - I think anyway.

A slightly firmer question (sorry in advance Mac)

Why did you use trench bunkers at RA #17 when the remaining site was traditional shaped circular design. I understand you wanted to redesign the entire course but it was alarmingly bold to have just hole with this design


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mike Clayton]

thecollective

Re RA.

The short answer is if you looked at MacKenzie's plan his vision was not circular bunkers - rather something more spectacular and in line with what we did.
In retrospect we should never have done that hole first - but it was the one the club wanted to do because it was one of the remaining greens they needed to reconstruct.
A good lesson.

[BayBum]

Hi Mac

Your thoughts on the 17th @ 'The Cut' ? (Dawesville, W.A)

[Mike Clayton]

Never seen it.

[Bruce]

Mac,

How often does a designer go back after they are done to see whether their work is playing as intended?
eg. A green slope that might be a bit too severe, or it turns out it cannot be pinned, a bunker that is collecting a bit too much or not enough.

[Mike Clayton]

Bruce,

Most courses we work at we do at least an annual audit for the committee - and sometimes two.

Plus we get around a lot - both men's and women's Open's (to see Lakes,Bonnie Doon and Grange)and I play a tournament in Perth so we always have an eye on what's going on.

[Bruce]

Bruce,

Most courses we work at we do at least an annual audit for the committee - and sometimes two.

Plus we get around a lot - both men's and women's Open's (to see Lakes,Bonnie Doon and Grange)and I play a tournament in Perth so we always have an eye on what's going on.

Is that the norm for a design co? Do others do more? or less?

[Mike Clayton]

Is that the norm for a design co? Do others do more? or less?

i'm not sure if others do it but it avoids ad-hoc committee changes and it keeps the course on track. And it allows for improvements to what we may have done.

[Captain Nemo]

Mac, re The Doon....
Any chance getting green pics/maps etc via email to putt a book together?

[Mike Clayton]

Mac, re The Doon....
Any chance getting green pics/maps etc via email to putt a book together?

Well beyond my technical capabilities

[Captain Nemo]

Well beyond my technical capabilities

Can I email OCCM and ask...?
I’d really appreciate if I could get a copy?

[Mike Clayton]

Can I email OCCM and ask...?
I’d really appreciate if I could get a copy?

Sure.

[JADO75]

Why is your nickname Mac?

[Mike Clayton]

Why is your nickname Mac?

It's not. It's my initials.

[FuzzyJuzzy]

Mac,

It’s so great to read your responses here. Listening to what you have to say is always fascinating. Do you think a Sweetens Cove-type course would work in Australia given the smaller golfing population and market? If so, would that be a project that would interest you? And if so, where do you think it should/could be built? Sweetens Cove looks bloody amazing; it’s SO COOL what Rob Collins and his team have done there. A great, very creative golf facility accessible to pretty much anyone and everyone.

Also, pretty much same questions as above:
I’d love to see what you, Geoff and OCCM could conjure if you were to design and build something like Zac Blair’s The Buck Club. A project where you could create anything you wanted without being answerable to a committee or members or a developer. Would that look much different to the work you’ve already done?
Thanks Mac.

[Mike Clayton]

Mac,

It’s so great to read your responses here. Listening to what you have to say is always fascinating. Do you think a Sweetens Cove-type course would work in Australia given the smaller golfing population and market? If so, would that be a project that would interest you? And if so, where do you think it should/could be built? Sweetens Cove looks bloody amazing; it’s SO COOL what Rob Collins and his team have done there. A great, very creative golf facility accessible to pretty much anyone and everyone.

Also, pretty much same questions as above:
I’d love to see what you, Geoff and OCCM could conjure if you were to design and build something like Zac Blair’s The Buck Club. A project where you could create anything you wanted without being answerable to a committee or members or a developer. Would that look much different to the work you’ve already done?
Thanks Mac.

Would a great but out-of-the-way 9-hole public course work? Maybe - it'd have to be great though because of the perception here golf isn'r real unless it's 18 holes. Geoff and I played Frankston GC today - a real 9-hole hidden gem and it works with 300 members. I think it'd work as a public course as well.

Buck Club? How many clubs work here with a joining fee above $15,000 - unless its in Sydney? They work in US because there is way more money there and an expectation $100k plus joining fees are normal I've heard of $750k and $1m. It's a way different market.

[BUSHY]

Would a great but out-of-the-way 9-hole public course work? Maybe - it'd have to be great though because of the perception here golf isn'r real unless it's 18 holes. Geoff and I played Frankston GC today - a real 9-hole hidden gem and it works with 300 members. I think it'd work as a public course as well.

Buck Club? How many clubs work here with a joining fee above $15,000 - unless its in Sydney? They work in US because there is way more money there and an expectation $100k plus joining fees are normal I've heard of $750k and $1m. It's a way different market.

How about a course like Sweetens Cove?

Could that work in Australia?

[Steve57]

How about a course like Sweetens Cove?

Could that work in Australia?

That was Mike’s answer to the same question posed by Fuzzy Juzzy above Sam!