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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by WBennett View Post
    Was that before the freeway cut it in half?
    Yeah I reckon, the 16th (from 1980) hole does look like a cracker

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by FuzzyJuzzy View Post
    Does anyone think/know/actually believe this is really Mike Clayton??
    It seems to be the sort of thing he does. As Benno said he’s generally pretty keen to talk to people on Twitter

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by WBennett View Post
    Clayton use to post regularly on TGF, which I am lead to believe bit the big one a few weeks back.

    He is also active on Twitter and interacts with many.

    I suspect one of his lurking fanboys tipped him off into the thread
    Do you mean Golf Club Atlas?

  4. #104
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    The real Mike Clayton would have used an underscore between names, for sure.

    My replying to Mike's first post should have been a bit of a tip off that it is legit. Maybe we need Twitter like "Approved" badges. I'm the real AndyP FWIW.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by BUSHY View Post
    Do you mean Golf Club Atlas?
    I reckon Mac spends more time talking golf at all corners of the internet than playing it, which is amazing as he seems to play awesome courses every second day.

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  6. #106
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    Guys,
    I have no doubt it is MAC. If you don’t like aspects of The Lakes, here is a great opportunity to have a genuine discussion re GCA. I know Mike and I have no doubt he is able to defend his work. Ask genuine questions or give genuine unemotional statements and Clayts will respond in kind. It is a chance to elevate Ozgolf a bit in GCA conversation!

    Btw, Clayts and his team can only design a course. How it is presented is up to the club, or in this case Golf Australia!
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  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by WBennett View Post
    Clayton use to post regularly on TGF, which I am lead to believe bit the big one a few weeks back.

    He is also active on Twitter and interacts with many.

    I suspect one of his lurking fanboys tipped him off into the thread
    Not so - I've been lurking for a few years. Always illuminating

  8. #108
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    Mostly the more severe greens are on the shorter holes - 4,5,6,7,11 and 14. The holes were better players are hitting short shots. 1,2,3,12,15,16 and 18 are much less severe in contrast.

    And does anyone thing the old guys didn't built some wild greens? Augusta 5 and 14 both have 'buried elephants in them. 16 too. Those greens are plenty severe - and would attract the same criticism if they weren't at Augusta.

  9. #109
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    Mac, I read your article about 13 being a twitchy hole. I haven't played the lakes so I'm only going off of the pictures I've seen but do you think the green might be too severe for the average amateur?

  10. #110
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    I reckon a bit of severity like 13 is a good thing for every level of golfer.

    You don’t have to fly it there like the guys below, even a rank 36 chopper has the opportunity to run something up the front of the green. It’s not all about flying it to a flat spot... or is it??




  11. #111
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    It's not so severe that they can't make 5/2 with their shot. Its 280 yards long. downhill and the fairway is 70 meters wide at 200.
    It needs a severe green because otherwise every good player would drive at it and get it easily up and down. As the article pointed out - what would be the point of that? It was too severe for Brandt Snedeker the first 2 days because he played too wide off the tee and missed the green both times - but Cam Smith had no problem because he placed his tee shot perfectly and wedged it close on the 3 days I saw him play it.

    Nor is it any more severe than Woodlands 4 - which is another green when you get out of position it's hard to get back in position.

  12. #112
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    Mac, am enjoying you and MM pointing out Brandel's hypocrisy on the roll back issue...….keep punching on.

    When you did the redesign, did you create 13 as a hole that would create some controversy or has it surprised you. I often think people are looking through rose coloured glasses when they eulogise the old hole, it was ordinary.

  13. #113
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    The old hole was a bad one - especially for short hitters because their second shot was often over the big paperbarks on the corner. And the bunkers on the outside of the dogleg. Plus now all the strong players would be reaching the green (remember Sergio driving in in the early 2000s) and that tee shot was blind over tall trees and that's always a terrible option.
    The controversy is somewhat surprising - but given its length and the width of the fairway it wouldn't have been very interesting if it wasn't somewhat controversial. Just boring.

  14. #114
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    Debatin' with Clayton - Episode 101.

    😂

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    Mac looking at the 1980's open was there any old holes that you tried to recapture with the re-design

  16. #116
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    2 was a par 4 in 1980 and 3 was a 5. - and TWP changed 2 it to a 5 and 3 to a 4. We took the 2nd back to a 4, left 3 as a 4 and got the par back to 72 (not that we cared about the par) .The 5th green was redone by Newton,Grant and Spencer post 1980 to move it away from the boundary. We put it back a little closer to the original place.
    And the course was a lot more open but the tree planting had already begun - when the original course was windswept and open just like the old Australian. And we put the 18th green back on the ground as it was in 1980 - as opposed to the two elevated versions of Grant and Thomson.

  17. #117
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    I am playing the Lakes tomorrow with the sunday setup still in place. I played the old design once and the new course quite a lot. A massive improvement IMHO. It is always fun getting to 13, seeing where the pin is (and wind), and trying to formulate a strategy.

    Mike, it is great to have you on here sharing some views.

  18. #118
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    Geez you guys are picky, I had the opportunity to play at the Wednesday pro-am, absoluately loved the course, then again as a 18hcp any course is a tough course for me...

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    Quote Originally Posted by aym View Post
    Geez you guys are picky, I had the opportunity to play at the Wednesday pro-am, absoluately loved the course, then again as a 18hcp any course is a tough course for me...
    ****, lucky you!

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    Quote Originally Posted by fredstar View Post
    I am playing the Lakes tomorrow with the sunday setup still in place. I played the old design once and the new course quite a lot. A massive improvement IMHO. It is always fun getting to 13, seeing where the pin is (and wind), and trying to formulate a strategy.

    Mike, it is great to have you on here sharing some views.
    Thanks for the invite....

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by aym View Post
    Geez you guys are picky, I had the opportunity to play at the Wednesday pro-am, absolutely loved the course, then again as a 18hcp any course is a tough course for me...
    aym; I think one of the biggest issues is that any golfer with half an ability and/or high skill set expects to turn up and dominate a course the way they so desire.

    When they don't get their way the toys fly out the cot big time and it's always the golf courses fault.

    Such examples include:

    The old course (first time playing) 'I don't get it, flat and annoying, took too many shots out of bunker'

    Royal Melbourne: 'Greens won't hold my wedge shot, unfair'

    The Lakes: 'Greens don't let me stop the ball where I want it'

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by thecollective View Post
    aym; I think one of the biggest issues is that any golfer with half an ability and/or high skill set expects to turn up and dominate a course the way they so desire.

    When they don't get their way the toys fly out the cot big time and it's always the golf courses fault.

    Such examples include:

    The old course (first time playing) 'I don't get it, flat and annoying, took too many shots out of bunker'

    Royal Melbourne: 'Greens won't hold my wedge shot, unfair'

    The Lakes: 'Greens don't let me stop the ball where I want it'
    Sounds like a US Open

  23. #123
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    Making a new thread to place these questions in a more appropriate place. Ask Mac.





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  24. #124
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    Played it today and it was great. Hard to say if I have ever played a course in Oz in more mint conditions. Was great fun playing right back off the tips. (32 pts)

  25. #125
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    I ended up watching the 1980 Aussie Open last night. The course looked old, even then. Amazed at how little development was in the back of the long lens shots though - these days its tower blocks as far as the eye can see.

    What amazed me was the ball performance though - a miss went 30/40/50m off line, something the modern ball doesn't do. Approach shots unless struck perfectly regularly went long - they didn't stop on a dime. And ball flight - Norman could hit a 30m draw off the tee!

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