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  1. #301
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    Is there any doubt now that Cummins is the all rounder that the selectors have been looking for?

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    Interesting point that one. Clearly, the selectors define an all-rounder as primarily a batsman who can bowl some useful medium paced overs (see Andrew Symonds, Shane Watson, Mitchell Marsh, Moises Henriques, Hilton Cartwright etc). They have never seemed happy with the idea of using a ‘bowling’ allrounder like Ian Harvey, James Hopes or even James Faulkner (before he lost his form).

    They seem happy with the idea of diminishing the batting strength in order to lengthen the bowling depth. As I said earlier, I would prefer them to play a genuine bowler (James Pattinson) who is also a useful enough batsman at no. 7, followed by Cummins, Starc etc. The bowling is strengthened, and, lets be honest, the batting can hardly be any worse. I know that Pattinson is on reduced bowling loads at the moment, but how often is he going to be required to bowl more than 15 overs in a day’s play in a Test anyway? If you have 20 overs per day (approximately) for Starc, Hazlewood, Cummins and Lyon, that only leaves 10 overs for Pattinson, but 10 overs of much higher quality than what we see from Marsh et al.

    The other option is Matthew Wade - batting form has been pretty solid and he actually bowls pretty useful medium pacers. The Indian batsmen would be terrified of getting out to a wicketkeeper ....

  3. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheNuclearOne View Post
    I forgot to mention Finch has been playing plenty of County cricket and going well apparently which obviously has/had him earmarked for the Ashes.
    His runs in county cricket came in the middle order. Fair enough him opening in the UAE but it set up the problem for this summer when he needed to be in the middle order if in at all. Too late now

  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by hippo10 View Post
    Is there any doubt now that Cummins is the all rounder that the selectors have been looking for?
    Yes. A lot of doubt.

    Cummins is a good number 8 who could probably bat 7, but we don't need a 7, we need a good 6 who can come in at 4 for 70 and carry the tail. Cummins is part of that tail who can stick with the batsmen. But he is a bad (and often slow) starter, so not suited for up the order.

    I don't have any answers to the batting woes. I agree with the Burns and Renshaw option for Finch and M Marsh, but the big picture is that we'll just have to live with it until some golden boys emerge. That might be Pucovski and Sangha and Phillippe by next year.

    If they aren't ready, or aren't good enough, at least Warner and Smith will be convenient scapegoats after March, because there is no doubt they will be back in.

    P.S. What did Alistair Cook do to get knighted?
    Last edited by jimandr; 29th December 2018 at 11:14 PM.
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  5. #305
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    Have you watched any of those golden boys bat jim?
    Cummins problem is that he doesn't start quick enough??? But maxwell starts too quickly for you? Give us a spell jimbo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yossarian View Post
    Have you watched any of those golden boys bat jim?Cummins problem is that he doesn't start quick enough??? But maxwell starts too quickly for you? Give us a spell jimbo.
    To be titilated by your compelling commentary.......





  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by coalesce View Post
    His runs in county cricket came in the middle order. Fair enough him opening in the UAE but it set up the problem for this summer when he needed to be in the middle order if in at all. Too late now
    True. Fair chance he goes down next game and if it (solid if) comes off it won't be too late for the Ashes.
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  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by hippo10 View Post
    Is there any doubt now that Cummins is the all rounder that the selectors have been looking for?
    He batted well but he's still a bowler who is a very handy bat at this point. He better than some of our top order technically and he should continue to improve hopefully. During some of the periods when he couldn't bowl he played as a batsman in grade cricket. Certainly worthwhile. Starc actually has 9 fifties to his name but he's dropped off the last 18 months or so.

    If Stoinis can lift as a batsman in coming months he could well end up with a gig here and there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldracer View Post
    To be titilated by your compelling commentary.......
    Buy me a drink first.

  10. #310
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    Cummins will be rested for the next test after all of the load in this test.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyP View Post
    Cummins will be rested for the next test after all of the load in this test.
    He would have under Pat Howard but thank god he has goooooone!
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  12. #312
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    Thank goodness that’s over. Is that 4 or 5 years now since we’ve won a test?

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    Pity Cummins was dismissed it would have been nice to finish not out.

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    And now they are talking up Labuchagne for the Sydney Test......ffs

    Maxwell must come into the team for Mitch Marshtard. The rest I don’t really care.

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    Pick 10 bowlers.

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    They will probably shunt Kwaka up the order or less likely SOS given they haven't brought in an opener. Finch won't be opening, surely. Maybe they drop Marsh and Finch and Handscomb and Labuschagne come in or Finch goes down the order and Handscomb stays out.

    I'm wondering if Warner is a sure thing to come straight back in hence no real investment in genuine opening batsman at this stage and possibly Bancroft is seen as a likely starter or good standby so they have enough already with Harris in training. Rather than bring in openers they get to trial an extra middle order bat maybe. They definitely don't want Maxwell.
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  17. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webster View Post
    And now they are talking up Labuchagne for the Sydney Test......ffs

    Maxwell must come into the team for Mitch Marshtard. The rest I don’t really care.
    Clearly they are using my theory of buying golf clubs on the selections. If your struggling with the putter then you need to buy a 3 wood, driver or both .

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    Same squad plus Marnus Whatsy, can’t say I’m surprised.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yossarian View Post
    Have you watched any of those golden boys bat jim?
    Cummins problem is that he doesn't start quick enough??? But maxwell starts too quickly for you? Give us a spell jimbo.
    I'm gonna bite on this one.

    Firstly, has anybody watched the players named bat? Even cricket tragics and national selectors don't watch the Shield. Besides, everyone knows that in our current state any player under 25 who makes two 50's in a row will be spruiked up by someone. Shane Warne wants Darcy Short in the team.

    I don't know if they are good enough, but I'll bet at least one of them gets a tour of England as the reserve bat if they make any runs at all in the last Shield games.

    Secondly, Cummins's problem is that he starts badly, which, combined with his slow scoring rate early, makes him a bad option up the order. He is in survival mode for his first 30 balls, and can't rotate the strike unless he edges a single. Leave him at 8, I say.

    Maxwell doesn't score enough runs for me. Nothing to do with his scoring rate. We want him to stop a collapse rather than be part of one, but if he made 50's off 50 balls we wouldn't care. But he doesn't. As it happens, if M Marsh and Handscomb and Finch are all abandoned, I think Maxy will get another chance somewhere along the line, either against Sri Lanka or against England. He'll get plenty of limited overs chances, and in the perverse way Australian selection works, if he makes one day runs he'll get back in the test team.

    The Lab is an interesting one. He hasn't done much in first class cricket, but he was good against Pakistan, and he might get a go at the right time. Sydney has been an easy pitch so far this season. I can't see why he is named if they don't intend to play him (assuming Sydney isn't a greentop).
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  20. #320
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    Cummins is probably in survival mode for 30 balls at times because he's continually coming in after top order failures. Maxwell has scored more runs in the last FC season or more than virtually anyone and certainly many of who are actually in there.
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  21. #321
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    Haven’t read the reports yet, but I assume that if they are bringing Marcus back in, he will replace Mitch at no. 6 and play effectively as the second spinner.

    Seems somewhat bizarre logic to me - I don’t think he is even playing the T20, so no idea when he last had a hit. Still, Cricket Australia have continued to throw both the selectors and players under the bus with their scheduling of the Big Bash against the Test matches, so I do have some sympathy for the selectors in having to make gut calls based off nothing more than a hope. At least they have given him a chance in Australia after debuting him in Pakistan. I feel sorry for those guys (Maxwell in particular, but also Henriques a few years back) who got brought into the team in tough conditions overseas and then got dropped for the easier home series.

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    Feel for the Marsh brothers, Handscomb and a few others, if they hadn't been picked to play against India they might have got a weak 2nd innings 70 odd against Sri Lanka and guaranteed themselves an Ashes series. Timing is king.

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    Aussie cricket has been stuffed longer than Warner and smith have been banned.

    They’re all chasing coin everywhere, shield cricket is secondary and the test team is suffering. Making one or two changes is just applying more bandaids. Apart from Cummins and maybe goat, the bowlers are average as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimandr View Post
    I'm gonna bite on this one.

    Firstly, has anybody watched the players named bat? Even cricket tragics and national selectors don't watch the Shield. Besides, everyone knows that in our current state any player under 25 who makes two 50's in a row will be spruiked up by someone. Shane Warne wants Darcy Short in the team.

    I don't know if they are good enough, but I'll bet at least one of them gets a tour of England as the reserve bat if they make any runs at all in the last Shield games.

    Secondly, Cummins's problem is that he starts badly, which, combined with his slow scoring rate early, makes him a bad option up the order. He is in survival mode for his first 30 balls, and can't rotate the strike unless he edges a single. Leave him at 8, I say.

    Maxwell doesn't score enough runs for me. Nothing to do with his scoring rate. We want him to stop a collapse rather than be part of one, but if he made 50's off 50 balls we wouldn't care. But he doesn't. As it happens, if M Marsh and Handscomb and Finch are all abandoned, I think Maxy will get another chance somewhere along the line, either against Sri Lanka or against England. He'll get plenty of limited overs chances, and in the perverse way Australian selection works, if he makes one day runs he'll get back in the test team.

    The Lab is an interesting one. He hasn't done much in first class cricket, but he was good against Pakistan, and he might get a go at the right time. Sydney has been an easy pitch so far this season. I can't see why he is named if they don't intend to play him (assuming Sydney isn't a greentop).
    I feel so #blessed to get a reply.

    The selectors do watch the shield, every game is easily accessible on the interwebs and I've seen a fair bit of it over the last few years. Anyone with half an interest in cricket can do the same. Instead we blame CA for not prioritising the shield.

    Moving onto Cummins, and noting that I don't think Cummins should be anywhere but 8, but your logic and thinking is just bizarre.

    On one hand you pan Maxwell for going too hard but then pan Cummins for starting with some circumspection? Do you realise how inconsistent your positions are here. I'd query if you've watched the test matches so far, there is this bloke that bats 3 from India, starts kind of slowly... Also I have no idea what the problem is with starting slow or fast, as long as you score runs.

    So one is not sure how many runs Maxxy needs to score to impress you, and that is runs in comparison to the other options and whatever your hypothetical pass mark is for him. He has clearly shown for some time, which is why I don't think you've watched any shield, watched him bat in Asia or done even the quickest of analysis of his stats, that he can score runs in redball cricket. He is so clearly in the mix that it is a wonder more people aren't outraged he isn't in the squad.

    Mitch Marsh must never play for Australia again, with the only caveat that if he went back and averaged 55 plus for a season or so.

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    Coming back to the point I made yesterday about all-rounders - why was Ashton Agar not considered? He is a bowler and useful batsman, but is overlooked in favour of the two M’s (Mitch and Marcus) who are nominally batsmen and stopgap bowlers. The fact that they are both totally out of form with the bat seems to somewhat negate the reason for picking them. Why not play someone like Agar, who strengthens the bowling lineup while not really weakening the batting at all? I know he skipped a Shield game recently for health issues, but he is playing for Perth in the T20 so I assume he is available.

    Personally, I would ditch the fool’s search for an allrounder and go with the logic of consistently picking the best six batsmen, a wickkeeper and the best four bowlers for the conditions. The only change to the team between venues occurs in the bowling lineup, where you may choose to play a second spinner on certain decks. I struggle to understand the argument by (mostly) Victorians who say you should use Finch as an opener in some conditions, and then bat him down the order elsewhere. You pick your best six batsmen, and particularly openers, and then back them to perform under all conditions - if Finch can only succeed (and I use that term fairly loosely, as he hardly dominated in Pakistan) in the best possible scenario, why not reward someone else who is then more likely to succeed in the tougher situations?


 

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