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  1. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by PerryGroves View Post
    gives a dissertation on Melbourne restaurants and the superior "European" culture of the city.
    Funny you say this, Melbourne is supposed to be the coffee capital but I've never had a good coffee in Melbourne...

  2. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webster View Post
    In name only Perry - the new site that replaced the TGF name, with all the usual regulars, is alive and well.

    This thread is quite a reasonable discussion on the topic of strategic golf design - apart from one clueless cretin of course (who may well be just trolling the rest of you).
    Do they have a Proshop section??
    Last edited by mrbluu; 25th December 2018 at 08:58 PM.

  3. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrbluu View Post
    Funny you say this, Melbourne is supposed to be the coffee capital but I've never had a good coffee in Melbourne...
    So subjective
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  4. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by Courty View Post
    So subjective
    I see what you did there

  5. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrbluu View Post
    Funny you say this, Melbourne is supposed to be the coffee capital but I've never had a good coffee in Melbourne...
    Probably coz you went to the wrong places. After living there for 6 years I could never go back to instant


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  6. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by thecollective View Post
    Probably coz you went to the wrong places. After living there for 6 years I could never go back to instant


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    If it is the coffee capital, wouldn't most place make good coffee??

  7. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrbluu View Post
    If it is the coffee capital, wouldn't most place make good coffee??
    Even good golf courses can have holes with poor strategic design.

  8. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyP View Post
    Even good golf courses can have holes with poor strategic design.
    I don't think any of the coffee I had was penal.....

  9. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrbluu View Post
    I don't think any of the coffee I had was penal.....
    Maybe try the stuff they dig out of monkey shit?

  10. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by benno_r View Post
    Maybe try the stuff they dig out of monkey shit?
    I'm not on mining, engineering or health services money!!

  11. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by benno_r View Post
    Maybe try the stuff they dig out of monkey shit?
    Isn't it Civet Shit?, no Apes involved as far as I am aware.

  12. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by benno_r View Post
    Maybe try the stuff they dig out of monkey shit?
    illegal in Australia, goes under the classification of feces (coming back from Bali a bloke next to me had it taken away @ Quarantine)

  13. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by thecollective View Post
    illegal in Australia, goes under the classification of feces (coming back from Bali a bloke next to me had it taken away @ Quarantine)
    Bloody nanny state!

  14. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by thecollective View Post
    illegal in Australia, goes under the classification of feces (coming back from Bali a bloke next to me had it taken away @ Quarantine)
    Sounds like a penal kind of coffee then...

  15. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by thecollective View Post
    illegal in Australia, goes under the classification of feces (coming back from Bali a bloke next to me had it taken away @ Quarantine)
    Maybe he was bringing something else back in as you can definitely get kopi luwak in Australia. I have had it and don’t get the point of it. A bit like Jazz not getting this thread.

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  16. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by SundayHack View Post
    Maybe he was bringing something else back in as you can definitely get kopi luwak in Australia. I have had it and don’t get the point of it. A bit like Jazz not getting this thread.
    Just did some homework, if the beans are already roasted you’re ok. Hence it’s now toasted poo, rather than fresh

    Although I’m not sure if the word fresh can be used in this context


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  17. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by benno_r View Post
    Sounds like a penal kind of coffee then...
    No mate, it comes out the back, not the front

  18. #293
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    The TPC Sawgrass finish of 16-17-18 is one of the rare but brilliant examples of penal golf design providing exciting golf. It’s like a wild ride where only the brave survive.

    Pete Dye is the master.

  19. #294
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    My take on strategic design is less informed than many here, but I feel that it is inherently to do with courses/holes that reward the bold play (bold, not necessarily the most powerful) with birdie chances, while still allowing conservative options to go for par. At the same time, the bold play must contain a penal element, or otherwise it is not bold.

    Our fifth hole totally does my head in, and therefore is probably a good example of this type of approach. It is a par 5 of around 480 metres, and is definitely reachable in two with a good drive. It has a fairly generously wide fairway, but the green is fairly small with a bunker on the right hand side.

    Hole features:
    - it has a small dam at around the 210-230 metre mark that covers the left third of the fairway.
    - there are trees up the right hand side, so you can't really bail out that way.
    - there is out-of-bounds all the way up the left hand side. This does not really come into play on the tee-shot though.
    - there is a second water hazard, a small creek, that is about 50 metres short of the green, and is also at the bottom of a hill.

    The tee shot determines how you play the hole. It is usually into the wind, so you need to be confident you can either carry your drive over 230 metres (which is a big hit for most people, and particularly into the wind), hit a fairly small fairway target to the right of the dam, or you choose to lay up at around 200 metres.

    The bold play is definitely driver off the tee and take the dam on. You can then have a crack at the green knowing that you will (should) carry the creek and birdie is a distinct possibility even if you miss the green.

    However, if you lay up short of the dam, it is a really big hit with a fairway wood into the wind to carry the creek. Adding to the problem is that you need to judge your second short to finish short of the creek. As the creek is at the bottom of a hill, balls will run into the creek if not judged perfectly. Alternatively, you can leave yourself a really tricky downhill lie if the ball doesn't go to the bottom. Laying up short of the hill then leaves a nasty shot of about 150 metres into a well protected small-ish green.

    If you bail out to the right off the tee to avoid the dam, if you want to hit anything longer than a mid-iron you have to shape your next shot with a fade, and generally it involves aiming towards the out of bounds. While I normally don't like out of bounds, in this situation, it actually serves a nice purpose and is not really in play unless you are well out of place from the tee.

    I have played this hole a lot over the years, and still don't really know what the best strategy is. If I needed birdie, I would take driver off the tee. If I needed bogey, I would lay up twice. For par - no idea. I tend to take driver if there is no wind, or if the tee blocks are forward, and lay up when windy or if the tees are back.

  20. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart View Post
    However, if you lay up short of the dam, it is a really big hit with a fairway wood into the wind to carry the creek. Adding to the problem is that you need to judge your second short to finish short of the creek. As the creek is at the bottom of a hill, balls will run into the creek if not judged perfectly. Alternatively, you can leave yourself a really tricky downhill lie if the ball doesn't go to the bottom. Laying up short of the hill then leaves a nasty shot of about 150 metres into a well protected small-ish green. If you bail out to the right off the tee to avoid the dam, if you want to hit anything longer than a mid-iron you have to shape your next shot with a fade, and generally it involves aiming towards the out of bounds. While I normally don't like out of bounds, in this situation, it actually serves a nice purpose and is not really in play unless you are well out of place from the tee.I have played this hole a lot over the years, and still don't really know what the best strategy is. If I needed birdie, I would take driver off the tee. If I needed bogey, I would lay up twice. For par - no idea. I tend to take driver if there is no wind, or if the tee blocks are forward, and lay up when windy or if the tees are back.
    I think if the hole had a flat area short of the second creek, it would be a better hole.

  21. #296
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    Im with Bushy, I like Sawgrass...

    I grew up playing the course on the home PC (PGA Tour Golf I think it was called) and it was my favorite track out of all the sims.

    Its quirky but in a good way. I would love to see it return to its original design but the yanks love their manicured grounds and blue water so no chance of that.

  22. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by thecollective View Post
    Im with Bushy, I like Sawgrass...

    I grew up playing the course on the home PC (PGA Tour Golf I think it was called) and it was my favorite track out of all the sims.

    Its quirky but in a good way. I would love to see it return to its original design but the yanks love their manicured grounds and blue water so no chance of that.
    TPC at Sawgrass, TPC at Avenel, PGA West Stadium, and Sterling Shores (Pebble Beach).

    Ahhh, memories.

    Except our version had a corrupted file, and we couldn't play PGA West Stadium. Shattered.
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  23. #298
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    My first hole in one. Nephew tripped over the power cord and it never got recognized. Talk about penal 😔

  24. #299
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    I see there has been some strategy sessions going on at TOC, the old boys must have been well into a decent session to contemplate this abomination,

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  25. #300
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    like the majority, I agree. It's hideous

    I guess the only consideration is that the course gets a lot of foot traffic on, around and/or near the bridge and so potentially the grass wears out significantly


 

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