Understanding Strategic Golf Design

[thecollective]

I suppose a 5 a 2 on a par 4 is pretty satisfying.
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No matter how top sh*t you think you are there is always someone better @ the game than you

[backintheswing]

No matter how top sh*t you think you are there is always someone better @ the game than you

Sorry if I offended you. I’m just having a joke with my mate Benno.


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[thecollective]

Sorry if I offended you. I’m just having a joke with my mate Benno.

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Its ok, to make it up to me you have to come to SA champs in 2019!

[benno_r]

Its ok, to make it up to me you have to come to SA champs in 2019!

He'll never go there with all that strategic golf you SAnkers have!

[thecollective]

He'll never go there with all that strategic golf you SAnkers have!

he will love Kooyonga!

[backintheswing]

Its ok, to make it up to me you have to come to SA champs in 2019!

If you don’t tell me it’s strategic I won’t know


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[Jazz18]

I think you've basically just agreed with the concept Jazz.

To say it is subjective is of course the truth but you've drilled down too deep into the idea and are seemingly more fixated on the idea of the narrower idea of tactics imo.

Concept and definition are 2 very different things. I never disagreed with the concepts, I disgreed with the definitions that were being given to me.

Being subjective is a narrow view. That's basically it's meaning. But if you put everyones subjective views on this topic together, ie all golfers different ways to play the game of golf, you would not land on the definitions for a hole or golf course as a whole as outlined here. The concepts might apply to a shot or you might use a combination of the concepts, but in my view, you can't use any kind of blanket definition in relation to the design of a golf hole or course.

Well, I'm yet to see any reason to anyway.

[benno_r]

Concept and definition are 2 very different things. I never disagreed with the concepts, I disgreed with the definitions that were being given to me.

Being subjective is a narrow view. That's basically it's meaning. But if you put everyones subjective views on this topic together, ie all golfers different ways to play the game of golf, you would not land on the definitions for a hole or golf course as a whole as outlined here. The concepts might apply to a shot or you might use a combination of the concepts, but in my view, you can't use any kind of blanket definition in relation to the design of a golf hole or course.

Well, I'm yet to see any reason to anyway.

So if the past 100's of years of golf architecture knowledge have golf hole definition incorrect, what is your alternative?

[WBennett]

... Attachment 48827

Wow. Either hell has frozen over, or there are no other golf forums left on the internet.

[Jazz18]

So if the past 100's of years of golf architecture knowledge have golf hole definition incorrect, what is your alternative?

I didn't say it was incorrect, I said I didn't agree with it. I don't know everything about GCA and I'm certainly no expert but that doesn't mean I don't have an opinion. It's just different to the masses. Maybe there's something I haven't seen yet that will change my mind and I might agree with the common held definition but like I said, I haven't seen it yet.

Well given the definitions you hold as accurate have taken that long, surely you're not asking me to come up with an alternative right now on some pokey little golf forum are you mate? Do I need an alternative to validate my opinion?

[Yossarian]

You kind of do jazz. Otherwise your just pissing in the wind.

[3Puttpete]

You kind of do jazz. Otherwise your just pissing in the wind.

I don’t know much about art but I know what I like

[PeteyD]

[thecollective]

That’s gold Pete!


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[Yossarian]

I don’t know much about art but I know what I like

[PerryGroves]

Quote from Tom Doak

Doak.jpg

[3Puttpete]

Quote from Tom Doak

Attachment 48828

[benno_r]

Quote from Tom Doak

Attachment 48828

Would this flat earth philistine know about golf design? He can't even pick the right Nash course to demolish!?!?!

[3Puttpete]

Would this flat earth philistine know about golf design? He can't even pick the right Nash course to demolish!?!?!

Importantly he doesn’t challenge the definition though

[benno_r]

Importantly he doesn’t challenge the definition though

You raise a good point, was he referencing old school strategic design, or new school?

[petethepilot]

I think Tom is saying that Heroic golf is were the true highs/lows exist in golf!

[Benje]

Doak referred to the 11, 12 and 13 hole run at Augusta to explain the basic concepts of three types of holes.

On 11, a teeshot is more difficult played to the right, but offers a better line to the green. A safer tee shot to the left leaves a longer second with the hazard covering more area forcing a shot to the right, where the ground moves the ball away from the green leaving a challenging shot (unless you are Larry Mize). Classic Strategic hole.

On 12, Rae's Creek is a hazard that must be confronted - it cannot be avoided. Classic Penal hole.

On 13, there is elements of Strategic holes, whereby any shot played close to the water hazard gives a better line (and lie) for your next shot than a shot played away from the hazard. There is elements of Penal holes where Rae's creek must be crossed with the approach to the green. And (more critically) there is elements of Heroic holes where an aggressive tee shot that carries the water hazard gets a large reward of shorter distance nd better line to the green. As often happens with Heroic holes, the hazards that must be carried are severe.

Benje

[Webster]

Wow. Either hell has frozen over, or there are no other golf forums left on the internet.

Hello Juan

[petethepilot]

TGF mark 2!

[WBennett]

Hello Juan

Hi Shane