Understanding Strategic Golf Design

[benno_r]

You don’t even play golf. Stay out of this.

Let's go over to the beer thread and let them know how awesome Fosters is.

[Webster]

For those still struggling with the concept of strategic golf design, I give you my favourite example - the famed 6th hole at Royal Melbourne West.

RM6.JPG

391 metres, downhill to the wide landing area, then rising up to a well bunkered heavily sloping green from back to front. In the above diagram, the yellow line shows the fairway landing area of 90+ metres. The red line is the conservative line which does not challenge the fairway bunkers but leaves a 190m second shot, the blue line the more adventurous line (205m carry over the bunkers) and the green line the aggressive line (or as Max Behr referred to it - the "line of charm" (see below)) with a 230m carry across the diagonal hazard leaving a 120m second shot. The optimum line and length off the tee can change depending upon the pin position (which can be observed from the 5th tee) and the prevailing wind of the day. Pins on the left of the green arent really accessible from the left hand side of the fairway or from where the green line drive would finish, conversely a pin on the right hand side of the green needs to be attacked from the left side of the fairway, guarding against going too strong into the green and leaving a diabolical downhill putt.

Like all truly great strategic holes, there are multiple options to consider from the tee and on the approach shot. The most difficult pin is on the front left, just over the bunker, and one which needs to be approached from as close to the fairway bunker on the dangerous green line. This is a hole which requires placement, not brute strength, in order to make the second shot as simple as possible. The downhill/sidehill nature of the fairway lies further complicate the challenge of the iron shot.

A very good description of the holes strategic merit and options is here

“The direct line to the hole is called the line of instinct, and to make a great hole you must break up that line in order to create a line of charm. The line of charm is the provocative path that shaves off distance and provides an ideal into the green, usually by skirting bunkers and other hazards. The golfer wants the most direct line he can find to the hole, while the architect uses bunkers and other hazards to create risk and reward options that suggest the ideal line for the player, or the line of charm.” (Max Behr)

[3Puttpete]

Let's go over to the beer thread and let them know how awesome Fosters is.

I think you’ll find the experts agree xxxx gold is better

[3Puttpete]

For those still struggling with the concept of strategic golf design, I give you my favourite example - the famed 6th hole at Royal Melbourne West.

Attachment 48827

391 metres, downhill to the wide landing area, then rising up to a well bunkered heavily sloping green from back to front. In the above diagram, the yellow line shows the fairway landing area of 90+ metres. The red line is the conservative line which does not challenge the fairway bunkers but leaves a 190m second shot, the blue line the more adventurous line (205m carry over the bunkers) and the green line the aggressive line (or as Max Behr referred to it - the "line of charm" (see below)) with a 230m carry across the diagonal hazard leaving a 120m second shot. The optimum line and length off the tee can change depending upon the pin position (which can be observed from the 5th tee) and the prevailing wind of the day. Pins on the left of the green arent really accessible from the left hand side of the fairway or from where the green line drive would finish, conversely a pin on the right hand side of the green needs to be attacked from the left side of the fairway, guarding against going too strong into the green and leaving a diabolical downhill putt.

Like all truly great strategic holes, there are multiple options to consider from the tee and on the approach shot. The most difficult pin is on the front left, just over the bunker, and one which needs to be approached from as close to the fairway bunker on the dangerous green line. This is a hole which requires placement, not brute strength, in order to make the second shot as simple as possible. The downhill/sidehill nature of the fairway lies further complicate the challenge of the iron shot.

A very good description of the holes strategic merit and options is here

“The direct line to the hole is called the line of instinct, and to make a great hole you must break up that line in order to create a line of charm. The line of charm is the provocative path that shaves off distance and provides an ideal into the green, usually by skirting bunkers and other hazards. The golfer wants the most direct line he can find to the hole, while the architect uses bunkers and other hazards to create risk and reward options that suggest the ideal line for the player, or the line of charm.” (Max Behr)

What happens if you hit it into the kack on the right?

[Benje]

Pray it is not a stroke round.....

[Webster]

Aim further left with the next one

[benno_r]

What happens if you hit it into the kack on the right?

Right and short of the bunkers is tussocky type grass on sandy waste. Further right of that is in the trees. Further right than that seems to be their storage dam.

[backintheswing]

Right and short of the bunkers is tussocky type grass on sandy waste. Further right of that is in the trees. Further right than that seems to be their storage dam.

Sounds penal to me


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[benno_r]

Sounds penal to me


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I am sure it does. Luckily from all our previous discussion I know you are a cretinous clown when it comes to GCA.

Regardless, it can't be that penal. My records indicate I had a 2 putt par there. Taking the green line on Websters diagram.

[Ron Burgundy]

I am sure it does. Luckily from all our previous discussion I know you are a cretinous clown when it comes to GCA.Regardless, it can't be that penal. My records indicate I had a 2 putt par there. Taking the green line on Websters diagram.

230m carry. Flusher.

[thecollective]

In name only Perry - the new site that replaced the TGF name, with all the usual regulars, is alive and well.

This thread is quite a reasonable discussion on the topic of strategic golf design - apart from one clueless cretin of course (who may well be just trolling the rest of you).

You just broke the first rule of fight club....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Benje]

Heroic carries often involve severe hazards.

[thecollective]

For those still struggling with the concept of strategic golf design, I give you my favourite example - the famed 6th hole at Royal Melbourne West.

Attachment 48827

391 metres, downhill to the wide landing area, then rising up to a well bunkered heavily sloping green from back to front. In the above diagram, the yellow line shows the fairway landing area of 90+ metres. The red line is the conservative line which does not challenge the fairway bunkers but leaves a 190m second shot, the blue line the more adventurous line (205m carry over the bunkers) and the green line the aggressive line (or as Max Behr referred to it - the "line of charm" (see below)) with a 230m carry across the diagonal hazard leaving a 120m second shot. The optimum line and length off the tee can change depending upon the pin position (which can be observed from the 5th tee) and the prevailing wind of the day. Pins on the left of the green arent really accessible from the left hand side of the fairway or from where the green line drive would finish, conversely a pin on the right hand side of the green needs to be attacked from the left side of the fairway, guarding against going too strong into the green and leaving a diabolical downhill putt.

Like all truly great strategic holes, there are multiple options to consider from the tee and on the approach shot. The most difficult pin is on the front left, just over the bunker, and one which needs to be approached from as close to the fairway bunker on the dangerous green line. This is a hole which requires placement, not brute strength, in order to make the second shot as simple as possible. The downhill/sidehill nature of the fairway lies further complicate the challenge of the iron shot.

A very good description of the holes strategic merit and options is here

“The direct line to the hole is called the line of instinct, and to make a great hole you must break up that line in order to create a line of charm. The line of charm is the provocative path that shaves off distance and provides an ideal into the green, usually by skirting bunkers and other hazards. The golfer wants the most direct line he can find to the hole, while the architect uses bunkers and other hazards to create risk and reward options that suggest the ideal line for the player, or the line of charm.” (Max Behr)

This is my favorite hole on the property, I think one of the most underrated hotels is #1 RME, I will post a similar thing once I get some spare time


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[coalesce]

To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand strategic golf design. The theory can be extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical physics most of the angles will go over a typical players's head. There's also Dr McKenzie's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his characterisation- his personal philosophy draws heavily from Narodnaya Volya literature, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these holes, to realise that they're not just strategic, they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike a strategic golf course truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in the road hole , which itself is a cryptic reference to Turgenev's Russian epic Fathers and Sons. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as the genius wit unfolds itself on their golf courses. What fools.. how I pity them.

And yes, by the way, i DO have a Royal Melbourne tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the ladies' eyes only- and even then they have to demonstrate that they're within 5 IQ points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand. Nothin personnel kid

I’m going to presume the spelling mistake at the end of this is deliberate trolling

[Yossarian]

Pretty much any sport is strategic to an extent and a look at the definition of the word demonstrates the golf is especially so.

"a plan of action designed to achieve a long-term or overall aim."

If your playing scoring golf , then the plan of action is obviously getting your golf ball in the hole. The how you do it is also part of the strategy. You might be a spud golfer but you'll still be thinking about the best option for yourself. Even on a straightway par 4 you are going to think about your shot shape, contours, hazards and the like and try and execute the best shot you can. If you don't think about any of those things and are a straight line golfer then good. Maybe for you golf isn't strategic but the holes are there for you to play that way.

By extension the golf courses/holes themselves require a strategy to play them. An individual golfer may be unaware of this or lack the skills necessary to pull off certain strategies. Some of these holes will be better than others in terms of strategy but to say it doesn't exist is just ludicrous IMO or just a stunning lack of insight.

[Yossarian]

I’m going to presume the spelling mistake at the end of this is deliberate trolling

Yes and only that bit. Def not a copypasta.

[benno_r]

230m carry. Flusher.

Elevated tees, tailwind, off the blues.... Happy days! Plus the nice tail on it meant it may have only needed to carry 215m, then keep going right.

#fadeitlikeyoumadeit

[thecollective]

Pretty much any sport is strategic to an extent and a look at the definition of the word demonstrates the golf is especially so.

"a plan of action designed to achieve a long-term or overall aim."

If your playing scoring golf , then the plan of action is obviously getting your golf ball in the hole. The how you do it is also part of the strategy. You might be a spud golfer but you'll still be thinking about the best option for yourself. Even on a straightway par 4 you are going to think about your shot shape, contours, hazards and the like and try and execute the best shot you can. If you don't think about any of those things and are a straight line golfer then good. Maybe for you golf isn't strategic but the holes are there for you to play that way.

By extension the golf courses/holes themselves require a strategy to play them. An individual golfer may be unaware of this or lack the skills necessary to pull off certain strategies. Some of these holes will be better than others in terms of strategy but to say it doesn't exist is just ludicrous IMO or just a stunning lack of insight.

You need to say all this with a pipe in your left hand, a glass of sherry in your right and be next to a fire with a cat on your lap


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jazz18]

Hey Jazz, is it the definition of strategic golf design you disagree with or just that the 6th at RQ is strategic?

Not to re kindle something that has cooled off but I didn't see your question earlier. I don't think it's feasible to define golf course design or architecture in the way it's being discussed. To me, it's just too subjective. Everyone does things in a different way no matter the task and it's the same with playing golf. Every single golfer is different so the strategy that every golfer employs to play a hole is purely subjective. How many times have you heard people say certain golf courses fit their eye or not. Everyone sees golf courses and how to play golf in a different way.

I can see the design elements (strategic, heroic, penal etc) everyone is talking about and they may exist on some or maybe a lot of occassions on a particular hole or a whole golf course. However, they may not apply in a lot of cases depending on the skill level of the golfer, the tees being played, the weather conditions on the day etc etc, so attaching a definiton to a golf course or a hole (like #6 at RQ) seems a little redundant. There are just too many variables, in my opinion.

[Yossarian]

I think you've basically just agreed with the concept Jazz.

To say it is subjective is of course the truth but you've drilled down too deep into the idea and are seemingly more fixated on the idea of the narrower idea of tactics imo.

[backintheswing]

I’d love to see all you mid to high cappers play these strategic holes. Would be a blast.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[benno_r]

I’d love to see all you mid to high cappers play these strategic holes. Would be a blast.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We can generally play them well, because the second part of strategic golf is playablility. Meaning we can get around.

Put us somewhere penal, let's say Hamilton Island, you'll see some interesting results...

[Yossarian]

I’d love to see all you mid to high cappers play these strategic holes. Would be a blast. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That is a poorly thought out dig.

[backintheswing]

We can generally play them well, because the second part of strategic golf is playablility. Meaning we can get around.

Put us somewhere penal, let's say Hamilton Island, you'll see some interesting results...

I suppose a 5 a 2 on a par 4 is pretty satisfying.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[benno_r]

I suppose a 5 a 2 on a par 4 is pretty satisfying.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So a "Strategic course" like RQ, I had 1 birdie and 5 pars last time I played, and 2 wipes.
A "penal" course like Hamilton Island I had 0 birdies, 1 par, and a million wipes.

So yes, it is pretty satisfying.