Understanding Strategic Golf Design

[benno_r]

Did you play Grange West?

I thought Kooyonga was the best example in Adelaide?

[thecollective]

It was an example

Until someone thought trees look pretty


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[BUSHY]

So a wonderful member of this forum shared the following link with me so I thought I’d return the favour for all following this thread.

https://itunes.apple.com/au/book/the...39083600?mt=11

A digital version of Robert Hunters “The Links”.

[petethepilot]

Thanks Bushy. Read it before but copies are rare so digital version is great!

My 2 cents.

Unless you can hit it roughly where you aim, a player’s strategy should just be to avoid disaster hazards.
A wider playing area allows that. The game is then fun when the lesser player hits an occasional good shot
and doesn’t lose too many balls (or take 5 hours to play).

The better player has a whole different take on strategy. The game really heats up when you must decode
How to best play the hole, taking into account weather conditions, pin postitions, state of the game and your own ego!
It is far more challenging to have to aim to the side (away from the centre of the fairway) to access a beneficial position for the next shot.
Narrow playing corridores don’t allow that! A hole can have a vast amoint of features that can effect strategy. Some may only be present several times per year. Others like water, bunkers etc may be there in every round. The greater the course, the greater the subtlety. Soft conditions (like most PGA tour events) remove the impact small features have, leaving large features (like water hazards) to control strategy. Great courses playing firm and fast are much harder to decipher as small features can then effect the result of shots!

[thecollective]

Well said Pete! Looking forward to meeting you in person in February


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[petethepilot]

Thanks collective. Very underwhelming in person!
Hope to be at the champs seeming that one of the rounds is my home course!

[PeteyD]

Found it on kindle for $3.99 so have added it.

[Dcanto]

Interesting comments from Mike Clayton regarding the 13th at The Lakes.

https://www.golf.org.au/newsdisplay/102181

[Matt 3 Jab]

I'll throw my 2c in, if i haven't earlier. but I'm no expert.

I play a course that is heavily effected by the weather (wind).

Most of the holes have 2 ways to play them when there is no wind at all. The lay up to a safer area and have longer in, or the drive it to the narrow part of the fairway and have less yardage into the green. This for those who have played magenta include holes 1, 2, 5, 6, 8, 10, 11, 13, 14, 16, 17, 18. And this isnt even taking into account the tees you play from.

When the wind blows (and it usually does being on the ocean and a lake), some of the options are taken away, and some options are multiplied. For example 1 into a southerly is LONG and requires driver and a long iron, while in calm conditions you can take on the bunkers or lay up, and downwind you can bomb away a bit more.

A lot of the shorter holes have trickier greens (5,6,8,10,11,13,15,17,1 so knowing where the pin is on the green helps a lot before the tee shot.

This is only 1 example of course design, and i feel if a course is never windy and has large areas to land and flat greens, there isnt much thinking.

But courses are usually never played in perfect conditions and hence some features stand out in some weather and others don't. I watched an episode of the "Chronicles of a champion golfer" and ernie els was saying in practice rounds how a bunker at some open course was only 200 yards off the tee and he thought "Why is that there? They must have hit it short back in the day it was designed". But when the wind changes, he was lucky to drive over it.

No idea if I've missed the point or not, but i feel good course design makes you think, and i believe more importantly, makes a course play different day after day so that its an always evolving piece of land that mother nature dictates.

I don't think I've come across a par 4 or 5 that hasn't had some sort of "two options from the tee" even on very basic courses. I know i like some holes and i know i hate others but in the end, i don't even know what I'm talking about

[Dcanto]

I agree with you Matt, I know what I like and what I don't.

I found Clayton's comments interesting in regards to his thoughts on 'fairness':

"Golf course architects sometimes ride a fine line when they build a hole on the edge of what most golfers would describe as ‘fair’.

I dislike the concept and the need to sanitize the game in order to make it ‘fair’."

[BUSHY]

[petethepilot]

IMHO the best centreline bunker complex’s are only 1 or 2 smaller bunkers...preferably set slightly to one side or another. There should be the threat of the bunker in the players mind. Does the golfer play left right short or carry the bunker. Bunkers as shown in the photo above just give the left right option.

[BUSHY]

IMHO the best centreline bunker complex’s are only 1 or 2 smaller bunkers...preferably set slightly to one side or another. There should be the threat of the bunker in the players mind. Does the golfer play left right short or carry the bunker. Bunkers as shown in the photo above just give the left right option.

That sounds like the 6th at RQ. Probably fits in with what you’re saying and for a pretty flat hole presents some good options.

[Jazz18]

That sounds like the 6th at RQ. Probably fits in with what you’re saying and for a pretty flat hole presents some good options.

What are the options? Maybe I'm missing something but realistically, I only see one line of play on the hole in the sketch.

[Mike Clayton]

The options are more the length you drive not so much the line.Longer hitters can try the carry down the left (245m) Shorter hitters can play left or try for the gap - which is still 35m across.
The bunker is further again - 280m. If the pin is tucked behind the little pot bunker on the left the best line is down ten right and if it's in the back right corner coming in from the left is a little easier.

[BUSHY]

As above is probably the best explanation. On the ground that pot bunker does play more into your approach if your coming from the fat side. The day we played the pin was back left and the ideal play was to the right of the centre bunker. Just a matter of having the balls to hit it there.

[benno_r]

I had the same conundrum when I played it last Sunday - it was a left pin, so playing down the right was the preferred option. I could either take driver and try squeeze it down the neck - knowing there was goonge left, and water right, or hit hybrid short of the trouble.

It meant I had a longer shot into a green (140m or so) that is hard to hold, instead of a PW.

Plenty of strategy there, even if people can't see it.

[Ron Burgundy]

I had the same conundrum when I played it last Sunday - it was a left pin, so playing down the right was the preferred option. I could either take driver and try squeeze it down the neck - knowing there was goonge left, and water right, or hit hybrid short of the trouble.It meant I had a longer shot into a green (140m or so) that is hard to hold, instead of a PW. Plenty of strategy there, even if people can't see it.

I thought laying up to hybrid distance was you go-to at RQ regardless.

[BUSHY]

I thought laying up to hybrid distance was you go-to at RQ regardless.

BUUUUUURNN

[petethepilot]

A hole that best highlights the strategy and effect of centre line bunkers is the famous 6th at Carnoustie in Scotland.

https://www.golf-monthly.co.uk/featu...noustie-150546

The player chooses increased risk up the left with reward of a much improved line into the green for the long second.

[Matt 3 Jab]

Only into this late, but as for centre line bunkers, we have 2 main holes at Magenta which have these.

The 2nd is a par 5 which depending on the tee, gives you options to either lay up straight and short, go over the top long, or right or left of the bunker. In addition to this there is a small one further up in the fairway which protects the very safe short layup.

16, a par 4, also has centre line bunkers. From the blacks, you can go over the top or out to the right which makes the second shot longer. There is also room left of them, but the angle to the green is worse.

On both these holes, they come in to play a lot!

[BUSHY]

A hole that best highlights the strategy and effect of centre line bunkers is the famous 6th at Carnoustie in Scotland.

https://www.golf-monthly.co.uk/featu...noustie-150546

The player chooses increased risk up the left with reward of a much improved line into the green for the long second.

Yeah that’s a brilliant example. Another classic would be the 12th on the Old Course but I think there’s that many options it makes it a really difficult decision hence the brilliance. The green is shallow, slopes away and the tier is steep making the second or third a really challenging prospect depending on what angle you approach and where the pin is.

I’ve played with a few people who just try and bludgeon it to death but rarely make pars. Awesome hole.

[benno_r]

BUUUUUURNN

No way man! My hybrid was lethal that day. Hit 4-5 greens with it, cause my driver sucked...

[Ron Burgundy]

No way man! My hybrid was lethal that day. Hit 4-5 greens with it, cause my driver sucked...

Absolutely. Benno hit more greens with a hybrid than I did with a wedge. Perfect strategy.

[BUSHY]

What are the options? Maybe I'm missing something but realistically, I only see one line of play on the hole in the sketch.

I think that probably nails it. You can’t see it so it mustn’t be there.