2017 The (British) Open

[jimandr]

Back to the off topic but related topic.

The weather is filthy again at the Senior Open today, and it is supposed to be the same for the rest of the event. I know there are guys who claim to enjoy watching the pro's cope with such conditions, but for me it isn't very exciting at the best of times, and seeing the Seniors struggling is even less interesting.

In a 'where are they now moment' at least we are seeing Peter Lonard on TV.

[Dotty]

I can't even remember when I was 24. :

At 24, I was selling ephedrine to truck drivers on the Hume Highway.

It was a different time back then.

[Ferrins]

If Nifty from Nudgee hit a drive into a donut van then how many donuts would Nifty from Nudgee nail?

[benno_r]

I'll leave this one here for Jazz. A bit of paint analysis on the drop.

Does hitting from the cack closer to the fairway, or 50m further back on the line he had, change the outcome?

[WBennett]

At 24, I was selling ephedrine to truck drivers on the Hume Highway.

It was a different time back then.

“We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, and a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers... and also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of Budweiser, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.
Not that we needed all that for the trip, but once you get locked into a serious drug collection, the tendency is to push it as far as you can.”

[WBennett]

I'll leave this one here for Jazz. A bit of paint analysis on the drop.

Does hitting from the cack closer to the fairway, or 50m further back on the line he had, change the outcome?

Dammit, it only the nearest rules official had commandeered the closest helicopter to get the drop in the exactly right spot to keep the internet happy.

[WBennett]

Back to the off topic but related topic.

The weather is filthy again at the Senior Open today, and it is supposed to be the same for the rest of the event. I know there are guys who claim to enjoy watching the pro's cope with such conditions, but for me it isn't very exciting at the best of times, and seeing the Seniors struggling is even less interesting.

In a 'where are they now moment' at least we are seeing Peter Lonard on TV.

Watching course management at its best. Langer, deciding the 400m par 4 into the wind was too long, taking 3 to get to the green, whilst Woosnam and Daly found themselves in all sorts of shit.

Doesn't take away that Langer cheats though

[benno_r]

Dammit, it only the nearest rules official had commandeered the closest helicopter to get the drop in the exactly right spot to keep the internet happy.

Thank you. Someone finally gets it.

Edit: they should have also used a helicoptor on Lexi's ball mark as well.

[Jazz18]

I'll leave this one here for Jazz. A bit of paint analysis on the drop.

Does hitting from the cack closer to the fairway, or 50m further back on the line he had, change the outcome?

Absolutely would have for the 13th hole. He would have definitely been in double or triple territory and his mind set going forward would have been completely different for sure.

[petethepilot]

He took unplayable!
His choices 2 club lengths/tee/back on the line to the pin. (His choice)

He goes back on the pin line which puts him amongst the vans (immovable obstructions) on the practice fairway.
He gets line of sight relief from the trucks etc. He is granted to the right by the 2 most senior rules officials on the Euro tour.
He drops, he hits and makes bogey.

Get over it fella's! He didn't cheat!

[benno_r]

He took unplayable!
His choices 2 club lengths/tee/back on the line to the pin. (His choice)

He goes back on the pin line which puts him amongst the vans (immovable obstructions) on the practice fairway.
He gets line of sight relief from the trucks etc. He is granted to the right by the 2 most senior rules officials on the Euro tour.
He drops, he hits and makes bogey.

Get over it fella's! He didn't cheat!

We all agree he was in his rights to take an unplayable in the trucks. I can even agree, even though it's not in the rules, a "ceremonial" drop is a decent outcome to the drop he had to take for his unplayable.

He just should have taken the "ceremonial" drop on a correct line, and that makes his NPR for TIO the goonge towards the fw, or 40/50m back.

Who was standing on top of the hill giving them the line to the green? The rules official or Jordan and Jordan's Caddy?

Let's play a hypothetical here:
1. You are a guy who is prone to choking big in Majors, and you are currently starting another one.
2. You carve one into the goonge. You get to the ball and see it's unplayable.
3. You see a nice big flat practice fw to the right, as the only legit way of fending off the choke monster, you also see that the trucks are the only way you have a chance of getting on that practice fw.
4. Rules official points the line in the wrong direction, that allows you to get to that practice fw. Do you:
a. go along with it, or;
b. take the correct line, take a ceremonial drop that means your TIO NPR is still in goonge on the fw side of the trucks...

Hypothetically of course.

But, I s'pose if we drew a line from the ceremonial unplayable drop (between the titty and callaway trucks), and the location of Jordan's unplayable ball, it would run through the flag right?

I know what parallax is, but it's not even close...

[Johnny Canuck]

“We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, and a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers... and also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of Budweiser, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.
Not that we needed all that for the trip, but once you get locked into a serious drug collection, the tendency is to push it as far as you can.”

The only thing that really worried me was the ether.

[petethepilot]

Benno,
The drop should have taken place in the middle of the trucks. Then they decide nearest point of relief from trucks! Then he needs line of sight relief from other trucks/obstructions in line of play. Finally he drops and plays! JP is the leading rules official on the Euro Tour. He wouldn't let him get away with a dodgy in front of 300 million people!

[petethepilot]

Wrt your statement, he needs to take relief from the trucks First! That is either left or right. The road left of the trucks is probably GUR! So he drops clear enough of the trucks for a swing. Of course the trucks further up are in the way! So he goes nearest por which is again right! Fonally clear of obstacles he drops and plays!

Whether you agree or not, he knows the rules. No rule states that you have to go back on the line and drop it in shit! He chose a place that gave him options. Should have been out of bounds then he wouldn't have the option....but the practice fairway at RB is not OB even for the members!

[benno_r]

Benno,
The drop should have taken place in the middle of the trucks. Then they decide nearest point of relief from trucks! Then he needs line of sight relief from other trucks/obstructions in line of play. Finally he drops and plays! JP is the leading rules official on the Euro Tour. He wouldn't let him get away with a dodgy in front of 300 million people!

I understand that, please read what I wrote again.

Look at the diagrams. You cannot chose to drop "anywhere" in the trucks. You must drop in the trucks, along the line between the unplayable ball and the flag.

The diagrams show Jordan's drop was 2-3m closer to the driving range, than it should have been. So if he stays as far back from the flag as where he took it, on the correct line, the other side of the trucks is NPR from TIO. Its irrelevant if the road is gur. You take your TIO relief, and then take your gur NPR.

So, instead of that, he is more than welcome to keep going back along the correct line until NPR from TIO is on the range side. And if he chooses to do that on the correct line, he is 40-50m further back than he was.

Forgetting all that, or refs calls or whatever, look at the diagrams. The red line intersects his unplayable ball, and his first drop for the unplayable. Can you honestly say that intersects the back right pin that was there?

[BUSHY]

Lines and drawings in 2D of something that occurred in 3D.

Reminds me of Tigers drop at the Players a few years ago with images from the blimp.

[benno_r]

Lines and drawings in 2D of something that occurred in 3D.

Reminds me of Tigers drop at there Players a few years ago with images from the blimp.

Refer to the purely 2d diagram i posted this morning. Still quite clear it was wrong.

[BUSHY]

Refer to the purely 2d diagram i posted this morning. Still quite clear it was wrong.

Who created it and placed the intersect lines?

[benno_r]

Who created it and placed the intersect lines?

I did. You cant actually see it after I put the yellow line, but the flag is in the pic.

[BUSHY]

I did. You cant actually see it after I put the yellow line, but the flag is in the pic.

I'm not disputing your point of view, I'm more interested in where you have assumed the ball is. From everything that I saw live to now indicates the ball was further to the right on the back of that mound ie closer to the range. Not by alot but enough to alter the yellow line, it's intersect and thus the interpretation.

That's the problem with 2d interpretations.

[Captain Nemo]

This is what I taped from watching the final round, pretty self explanatory!
https://youtu.be/6ddNw1_tc1c

[BUSHY]

This is what I taped from watching the final round, pretty self explanatory!
https://youtu.be/6ddNw1_tc1c

So if you take the line and place it in the centre of the truck as the lead official did on the day....Abracadabra!

[TheNuclearOne]

One of the greatest bogies in Major championship history. Even Jack Nicklaus was amazed that JS had the presence of mind under such duress to realise it as an option. He said he may not have even thought of it. Great theatre and a historical finish.

[benno_r]

This is what I taped from watching the final round, pretty self explanatory!
https://youtu.be/6ddNw1_tc1c

No one is arguing the process. That's been as clear as day from the moment it happens.

It hinges on his statement "where we believe the line was". Plenty of simple geometry shows, where they believe the line to be, is wrong. It's the only non subjective information in this debate.

Bushy drew an extra line from the flag, through Jordan's unplayable relief point amongst the trucks and that's great, because it shows Jordan's unplayable ball would have to be over on the left side of the dune for that drop point to be correct. And the ball wasn't.

The spectators are standing around Jordans ball here (between the play and ff arrow). See titty flag in bottom corner for reference. The ball is on the LEFT side of the dune, which means Bushy's line is incorrect.

[BUSHY]

No one is arguing the process. That's been as clear as day from the moment it happens.

It hinges on his statement "where we believe the line was". Plenty of simple geometry shows, where they believe the line to be, is wrong. It's the only non subjective information in this debate.

Bushy drew an extra line from the flag, through Jordan's unplayable relief point amongst the trucks and that's great, because it shows Jordan's unplayable ball would have to be over on the left side of the dune for that drop point to be correct. And the ball wasn't.

The spectators are standing around Jordans ball here (between the play and ff arrow). See titty flag in bottom corner for reference. The ball is on the LEFT side of the dune, which means Bushy's line is incorrect.

You do realise you just agreed with what I said? Thanks mate

"Bushy drew an extra line from the flag, through Jordan's unplayable relief point amongst the trucks and that's great because it shows Jordan's unplayable ball would have to be over on the left side of the dune...And the ball wasn't"


"....The ball is on the LEFT side of the dune, which means Bushy's line is incorrect."