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  1. #276
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    You only have to watch this to see the process that occurred to come to the ruling.

    https://youtu.be/oFjjcOv5OX0

  2. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by BUSHY View Post
    You do realise you just agreed with what I said? Thanks mate

    "Bushy drew an extra line from the flag, through Jordan's unplayable relief point amongst the trucks and that's great because it shows Jordan's unplayable ball would have to be over on the left side of the dune...And the ball wasn't"


    "....The ball is on the LEFT side of the dune, which means Bushy's line is incorrect."
    Let me be clear here. From the perspective of looking from the hole to the drop point (as per your line), the line was on the left of mine.

    From the the opposite side of the dune, the unplayable point is way left of your line.

    How about this for clarity:

    For Bushys line to be correct, the ball has to be far on the range side of the dune.

    The screenshot I posted shows the ball to be far closer to the fairway side of the dune? Happy?

    And the process has never been the issue. Let's forget everything else and focus on Geometry. I have posted enough Geometry evidence to show the Geometry of the drop has a high probability of being wrong.

    And from 2:31 in your posted video:

    https://youtu.be/oFjjcOv5OX0?t=2m31s

    Camera pans in, and shows line the line of flags over the hill. Pause at 2:41, and look at where all the flags of the trucks are - way further range side than you'd expect if his line he used was correct. As I said before, I understand it's not perfectly square, and I know what parallax is, but that's what tweaked it for me.

  3. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by petethepilot View Post
    JP is the leading rules official on the Euro Tour. He wouldn't let him get away with a dodgy in front of 300 million people!
    I'm with you. It's not as if he's Bernhard Langer.

  4. #279
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  5. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by BUSHY View Post
    So you agree the geometry is wrong? Because believe it or not, I still believe Spieth is the open champion.

  6. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by benno_r View Post
    Let me be clear here. From the perspective of looking from the hole to the drop point (as per your line), the line was on the left of mine.

    From the the opposite side of the dune, the unplayable point is way left of your line.

    How about this for clarity:

    For Bushys line to be correct, the ball has to be far on the range side of the dune.

    The screenshot I posted shows the ball to be far closer to the fairway side of the dune? Happy?

    And the process has never been the issue. Let's forget everything else and focus on Geometry. I have posted enough Geometry evidence to show the Geometry of the drop has a high probability of being wrong.

    And from 2:31 in your posted video:

    https://youtu.be/oFjjcOv5OX0?t=2m31s

    Camera pans in, and shows line the line of flags over the hill. Pause at 2:41, and look at where all the flags of the trucks are - way further range side than you'd expect if his line he used was correct. As I said before, I understand it's not perfectly square, and I know what parallax is, but that's what tweaked it for me.
    You're obviously not listening to Jordan and the rules official as he went back waaaaay beyond the range camera tower and also where he eventually played from to get his unplayable relief only to move forward and say words to the effect "how much farther forward can I go to get Line of Sight onto the range"

    Case closed. End of story. Surely? Geometry or not.

  7. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by BUSHY View Post
    You're obviously not listening to Jordan and the rules official as he went back waaaaay beyond the range camera tower and also where he eventually played from to get his unplayable relief only to move forward and say words to the effect "how much farther forward can I go to get Line of Sight onto the range"

    Case closed. End of story. Surely? Geometry or not.
    Bushy, what exactly do you think Benno and I, have been debating? Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point but we're not talking about his line of sight relief from the tour trucks, so what's it got to do with line of sight relief? There is no such thing as line of sight relief for an unplayable ball.

  8. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazz18 View Post
    Bushy, what exactly do you think Benno and I, have been debating? Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point but we're not talking about his line of sight relief from the tour trucks, so what's it got to do with line of sight relief? There is no such thing as line of sight relief for an unplayable ball.
    My understanding is that your opinions of the line of the initial unplayable relief was that it was too far towards the range and should have been closer to the 13th fairway?

    Am I correct?

  9. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by BUSHY View Post
    My understanding is that your opinions of the line of the initial unplayable relief was that it was too far towards the range and should have been closer to the 13th fairway?

    Am I correct?
    You are correct. The line they went back on from where his tee shot lay (the first "drop" between the tour trucks) went across the fairway, not to the flag. That is not correct.

  10. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazz18 View Post
    Correct. The line they went back on from where his tee shot lay (the first "drop" between the tour trucks) went across the fairway, not to the flag. That is not correct.
    I understand your point but I don't agree.

  11. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by BUSHY View Post
    I understand your point but I don't agree.
    Ok cool. Agree to disagree is fine with me

  12. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by BUSHY View Post
    My understanding is that your opinions of the line of the initial unplayable relief was that it was too far towards the range and should have been closer to the 13th fairway?

    Am I correct?
    Yes, you are right.

    But maybe I need to clarify something, which hopefully makes things clearer.

    If we are talking about the "ceremonial" unplayable drop being taken in the vicinity of where it was taken, but on the correct line, NPR from the trucks is on the fairway side. And since it is on the fairway side, there is no need for line of sight relief. We know Jordan didn't want to be on that side of the trucks, which is his prerogative, so if the line was correct, he wouldn't have dropped there, so let's move on.

    Now, if we keep going back along the correct unplayable line, eventually NPR for the unplayable drop in the trucks, changes from the fairway side to the range side. If you do this, the drop appears to be in or behind what I assume is the range camera tower. He would then be free to take line of sight relief from the camera towers as is his right. This gives him his complete relief on the range, just as he wanted.

    Although in this scenario, he is 40-50m (1 to 1.5 truck lengths) further back, and even further right of the trucks/tower.

  13. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazz18 View Post
    Ok cool. Agree to disagree is fine with me
    Agreed

  14. #289
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    Rory and JP's split further diminishes the worth of Spieth's win in my eyes.

  15. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yossarian View Post
    Rory and JP's split further diminishes the worth of Spieth's win in my eyes.

  16. #291

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    oh man, Rory is the guy i want to see the most


 

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