How to lose and gain distance back - Big Thank you to Pureform Golf

[YonexMan]

Bit of a story here - but maybe a "lesson learned" or hopefully other golfers might learn and not let the same thing happen to them in regards to their equipment, getting fitted and being coached by a teaching Pro.

Quick background - my son was fitted to some Mizuno MP15's by a local golf Pro. We had previously tested the clubs at a couple of Pro Shops with launch monitors, but wanted to be able to hit the clubs off grass and not a perfect hitting mat as well. The local Pro recommended a certain shaft to help my son develop the swing he needed to have, to gain that extra bit of consistency to drop down to a scratch or better golfer - he was already hitting off a 5 handicap. This made sense to me - so we went with his recommendation. Clubs worked great and my son in his first game with them hit to a 3 handicap even though he had to take a penalty drop on one hole. He then took lessons over a period of 6 months or so with the Pro that fitted him to the clubs. Over that time we noticed a slow decline in carry distance. - like around 15m in his irons, from the start of the first lesson, to the last lesson. My son commented on the declining loss of distance over the 6 months and the club Pro, said that - it was normal and that the distance would come back - but it never did. After another 3 months of playing and also me doing some research I decided that enough was enough and booked my son into Pureform for a iron fitting.

Now - over the period of coaching the change that the Pro had made to my son's swing was to shallow out his attack angle. Previously my son was quite steep and "trapped" the ball. on previous launch monitors he was around 7 to 8 degrees down.

On friday we were in Sydney and spent time with Michael Rasetta at Pureform Golf, going through a iron fitting. BIG thank you to Michael for all his patience and explanations. As at the end of the fitting, we found that the best option was to stay with the MP15 heads and change the shaft. My son instantly gained back the 15+ metres he had lost and was back to hitting out to 160m with his 6 iron again.

It was all in the shaft. As Michael explained that the original shaft that was fitted - being a Project X 5.5 Rifle shaft was meant for players who trap the ball with a very steep angle of attack. Hence why the club worked when we first got them. But because the local golf pro changed my son's angle of attack to be more shallow, this caused my son to go from 7 to 8 degrees down to what he has now - being around 4 degrees down. This also caused an issue with dynamic loft being higher than what it should be and as such backspin was through the roof for a 6 iron at around 6800rpm at times. My son uses the Bridgestone B330S ball.

After the shaft was changed to the Project X 5.5 LZ - spin dropped down to mid or below 5500rpm, dynamic loft was way better and distance was back to where it was expected to be. As this shaft is meant for downswings which are not as steep.

Michael even changed the heads to others he had there, such as the JPX 900 Forged, Srixon (can't remember the exact model number) and others, as well as testing other shafts and the results showed that the best result was still the original MP15 heads with the new Project X 5.5 LZ shaft. So we got the old heads retrofitted with new shafts.

Moral of the story? The golf Pro you get lessons from needs to have an understanding of your equipment. What shaft suits what golf swing. Otherwise you can all too easily end up going backwards and it may well be not your fault, as your equipment may not suit the swing that the golf pro is teaching you - or the changes they are wanting you to make.

Yes, my son could have gone back to his old steep angle of attack - but better to just keep doing what he is currently doing (as he is still playing well - it was just the distance loss that was a concern) so I decided that a shaft change was the way to go. But in essence, it should not have been necessary and has been yet another expensive exercise.

[Captain Nemo]

Nice story...
I think many older type pros have no idea of the new gear available these days...
Hence why Pureform and the like have popped up.

[AndyP]

Couldn't he have got the 15m back by using Forte balls instead?

[YonexMan]

Never heard of Forte golf balls until now.

The Pro shops up here don't stock anything outside the big names in the industry.

Other than that, my son prefers the performance of the B330S.

That said - we did do prior testing using different golf balls - there was very little difference in spin rate, which was a big part of the problem. The shaft made the difference when we were testing with Michael at Pureform. No swing changes were made during the day. Michael said that there was really nothing wrong with the swing. It was the shaft that was the issue and the proof was in the numbers being shown on Trackman, as we tested each shaft on the same head.

[Johnny Canuck]

I've had a few lessons with Curtis Luck's coach.

The last time I was there, I commented that another pro recommended that I change my ball placement. He seemed genuinely amazed that another guy would make any recommendations without looking at the Trackman numbers to see the result of such a change.

If you've got access to technology, use it!

Funny timing of the thread, I just bought a set of iron shafts on here and have lost between 10-15m with them, and I have a steep swing!

[YonexMan]

I've had a few lessons with Curtis Luck's coach.

The last time I was there, I commented that another pro recommended that I change my ball placement. He seemed genuinely amazed that another guy would make any recommendations without looking at the Trackman numbers to see the result of such a change.

If you've got access to technology, use it!

Funny timing of the thread, I just bought a set of iron shafts on here and have lost between 10-15m with them, and I have a steep swing!

What shafts did you change to?

I'll be selling my son's old shafts which are the Project X 5.5 Rifle shafts. But not sure if you would be interested in them as they are cut to have 3/8inch length difference between each shaft, rather than the standard of 1/2 inch difference. He prefers the 3/8inch difference.

[Johnny Canuck]

What shafts did you change to?

I'll be selling my son's old shafts which are the Project X 5.5 Rifle shafts. But not sure if you would be interested in them as they are cut to have 3/8inch length difference between each shaft, rather than the standard of 1/2 inch difference. He prefers the 3/8inch difference.

I tried out CTaper lites in x flex. I might just be getting too old for them .

I'll probably stick with my steelfibers.

I've had very good results with my project x 6.0s previously and will probably revisit the next time I feel like building some clubs.

[BUSHY]

...I commented that another pro recommended that I change my ball placement. He seemed genuinely amazed that another guy would make any recommendations without looking at the Trackman numbers to see the result of such a change.

If you've got access to technology, use it!

So true. I was thinking about this point the other day. Some pro's/fitters have enough of a clue to be dangerous, not enough to be proficient. This really highlights that fact.

[YonexMan]

So true. I was thinking about this point the other day. Some pro's/fitters have enough of a clue to be dangerous, not enough to be proficient. This really highlights that fact.

Yep, I guess that was my underlying point. The pro that fitted my son said that the shafts he fitted him to will help him develop the swing he needed to get down to scratch. But then the lessons the Pro gave my son made the shafts unsuitable to the swing. But it seemed that he knew that my son would lose distance and was expecting, saying it would eventually come back - but never did.

I just think that teaching Pro's need to have more knowledge about equipment in general. But also that there are a lot of pros out there that just teach a swing model - whether that swing model suits you or not, or suits your fitted equipment or not.

it's no wonder that amateurs don't tend to get better at times

[grandmasterb]

Yep, I guess that was my underlying point. The pro that fitted my son said that the shafts he fitted him to will help him develop the swing he needed to get down to scratch. But then the lessons the Pro gave my son made the shafts unsuitable to the swing. But it seemed that he knew that my son would lose distance and was expecting, saying it would eventually come back - but never did.

I just think that teaching Pro's need to have more knowledge about equipment in general. But also that there are a lot of pros out there that just teach a swing model - whether that swing model suits you or not, or suits your fitted equipment or not.

it's no wonder that amateurs don't tend to get better at times

Out of curiosity how was your son scoring even though he'd lost distance?

[3Puttpete]

.

[YonexMan]

His scoring had become very sporadic and was struggling to hit to his handicap over the past 6 months. Due to the continual loss of distance - even clubbing up would not work and at times it would look like he had just hit a great shot that was coming down right on the pin, only to be 8-10m short of the green. It was only over the last month that the distance loss had stabilised - as in it was no longer continually dropping. The thing was, as an example, he was previously hitting the PW out to 120m. This had dropped down to 105m. Still with the same very small dispersion rate, so there was no change in dispersion - only the big distance drop.

[3Puttpete]

Dd you think of buying him a 9 iron?

[YonexMan]

3puttpete.

I've no idea what you are trying to say with the photo or your comment on the 9 iron..

[3Puttpete]

3puttpete.

I've no idea what you are trying to say with the photo or your comment on the 9 iron..

That's ok. They were mostly for my benefit anyway.

[grandmasterb]

His scoring had become very sporadic and was struggling to hit to his handicap over the past 6 months. Due to the continual loss of distance - even clubbing up would not work and at times it would look like he had just hit a great shot that was coming down right on the pin, only to be 8-10m short of the green. It was only over the last month that the distance loss had stabilised - as in it was no longer continually dropping. The thing was, as an example, he was previously hitting the PW out to 120m. This had dropped down to 105m. Still with the same very small dispersion rate, so there was no change in dispersion - only the big distance drop.

If the above is true it sounds like he has more to worry about other than the loss of distance as there is absolutely no reason not to be able to go back 1-2 clubs to hit the distance required, hell we do it all the time when playing into a head breeze etc

Regardless of the shaft he was using or the swing changes it sounds like he is a very capable ball striker if he's off low singles but sounds like he needs to work on his mental toughness IMHO!!!

[Dotty]

That's ok. They were mostly for my benefit anyway.

I smirked.

This thread highlights the shortcomings of many club pros and, more accurately, the committees that select them.

[YonexMan]

If the above is true it sounds like he has more to worry about other than the loss of distance as there is absolutely no reason not to be able to go back 1-2 clubs to hit the distance required, hell we do it all the time when playing into a head breeze etc

Regardless of the shaft he was using or the swing changes it sounds like he is a very capable ball striker if he's off low singles but sounds like he needs to work on his mental toughness IMHO!!!

LOL - WOW

I post the original post to hopefully help other golfers learn from what has happened and for them to hopefully avoid the same problem and expense that I have gone through.

Now it has degraded to someone accusing my son of being mentally deficient.. Nice to see that they can make this sort of comment when they know nothing about him.

Backs up my original opinion of forums..

I won't bother with posting anymore.... obviously just trying to help others is not the thing to do anymore..

If the forum moderators are reading this - you are welcome to delete my profile please as I can't seem to find anything on the forum on how to do this.

[AndyP]

Your post seems like a bit of an over-reaction, YonexMan. You've had plenty of comments that agree with you in this thread, but you have chosen to blow up over one that doesn't.

[grandmasterb]

LOL - WOW

I post the original post to hopefully help other golfers learn from what has happened and for them to hopefully avoid the same problem and expense that I have gone through.

Now it has degraded to someone accusing my son of being mentally deficient.. Nice to see that they can make this sort of comment when they know nothing about him.

Backs up my original opinion of forums..

I won't bother with posting anymore.... obviously just trying to help others is not the thing to do anymore..

If the forum moderators are reading this - you are welcome to delete my profile please as I can't seem to find anything on the forum on how to do this.

From which part of my comment do you get that I've accused your son of being mentally deficient YonexMan???

Regardless of swing changes or not having the right shaft which had lead to a loss in distance if he can't hit a ****ing green with any club in his bag from any distance I stand by my comment that he needs to look at the mental side of his game and I reckon 99% of forum members would agree!!!

[Captain Nemo]

Nice one guys, turn a constructive positive thread into a joke...yet again.

[BUSHY]

From which part of my comment do you get that I've accused your son of being mentally deficient YonexMan???

Regardless of swing changes or not having the right shaft which had lead to a loss in distance if he can't hit a ****ing green with any club in his bag from any distance I stand by my comment that he needs to look at the mental side of his game and I reckon 99% of forum members would agree!!!

I agree, the inability to hit a green when even clubbing up is less to do with the shaft and more likely due to some other factor. I would ask if he can hit knock down shots into the wind with the new shafts now that there has been a change.

A bit of an overreaction from Yonex in the scheme of things. IMO it's often the case when discussing the strengths and weaknesses of your own children. It's a natural response.

[Yossarian]

Maybe he meant to quote 3pp.

I bet with myself this would happen and sure enough it has.

[backintheswing]

Usual stuff from certain members.

[3Puttpete]

Usual stuff from certain members.

Agree. The self-righteousness gets a bit much