USGA and tour yardage books

[Jazz18]

Seems the USGA might have a bee in their bonnet about professional players yardage books, specifically the green reading charts. I can see where they are coming from in this case. Never seen one before but the green reading chart shown in the story is crazy!

http://www.golfwrx.com/447292/the-us...yardage-books/

[Stuartd147]

Fair enough too I think....better to nip this now instead of letting it get to the point of almost telling them where and how to play the putt.

[LoveGolf2012]

Only problem is they bring it in 5 years after agreeing on it

[3Puttpete]

I don't see how the line is drawn between the green and rest of the hole.

Rangefinders during practice rounds, maps, distances, undulations are ok on fairways but not greens?

[grandmasterb]

The bloke holding the putter still has to pull the trigger so I can't see the problem really!!!

[Jazz18]

I don't see how the line is drawn between the green and rest of the hole.

Rangefinders during practice rounds, maps, distances, undulations are ok on fairways but not greens?

I think they are looking into how the green reading charts are produced. I think there is fairly sophisticated equipment used to map out the greens (well looked like it to me given the charts!) so they may see it as not in spirit of the rules because although not used during play, they are used to produce information for use during play. I could be wrong but that's how read the story.

[3Puttpete]

I think they are looking into how the green reading charts are produced. I think there is fairly sophisticated equipment used to map out the greens (well looked like it to me given the charts!) so they may see it as not in spirit of the rules because although not used during play, they are used to produce information for use during play. I could be wrong but that's how read the story.

AFAIK it's effectively a digital spirit level. Some caddies may get to a course 2 days early and place it at 100 different spots 2 metres apart on each green. Others may simply rely on hitting 6 putts from different spots in practice rounds.

I don't see how it's any different from having a book with exact yardages to and from 30 different places on a fairway.

[Jazz18]

Ok, you learn something every day. I didn't know the caddies did all that. For some reason I thought the tour issued that stuff like the pin sheets etc etc. Thought the players/caddies just made their own notes in the yardage books that are issued at the tournament so I was thinking that the detail shown in the story was part of the tournament issued yardage book.

[3Puttpete]

They may do that too

[Daves]

There are specialist course guides done by private contractors and sold to the Pros. From memory a couple of Australians do the main ones for the tour courses.

[jimandr]

It's an interesting debate, but I think the horse has already bolted on this one. I don't see how you can prevent a player from compiling an extraordinarily detailed map of a green and using it. Unless it were then copywrited, once you have this map you can't be stopped from giving it to someone else (whether out of the goodness of your heart or by the exchange of money). As has already been noted, the player still has to hit the ball in the exact correct spot at the correct speed.

My main issue with the super-detailed stuff is that it has slowed the professional game down even further, rather than speeded it up. Watch J Spieth on a green. He looks at his book forever, then makes his own read, often after consultation with caddy, then looks at the book again, then the green again, then he might make a decision. Most of the pro's are the same. More information just makes the eventual decision harder, and slower.

I don't have an answer, except to suggest a time limit for putts, maybe. The pro's will whinge, but if a time limit were imposed, it would be their own fault.

[Jazz18]

It's an interesting debate, but I think the horse has already bolted on this one. I don't see how you can prevent a player from compiling an extraordinarily detailed map of a green and using it. Unless it were then copywrited, once you have this map you can't be stopped from giving it to someone else (whether out of the goodness of your heart or by the exchange of money). As has already been noted, the player still has to hit the ball in the exact correct spot at the correct speed.

My main issue with the super-detailed stuff is that it has slowed the professional game down even further, rather than speeded it up. Watch J Spieth on a green. He looks at his book forever, then makes his own read, often after consultation with caddy, then looks at the book again, then the green again, then he might make a decision. Most of the pro's are the same. More information just makes the eventual decision harder, and slower.

I don't have an answer, except to suggest a time limit for putts, maybe. The pro's will whinge, but if a time limit were imposed, it would be their own fault.

Agreed on the slow play problem. I think it contributes too.

Can't agree on the horse has bolted analogy though Jim. Anchoring had well and truly gained traction and they tackled that so no reason to think that if they didn't like the green reading maps etc, that they wouldn't try and do something about that as well.

[wazamac]

When will the caddies bring out the iPad with a simulation of the green so they can practice the putt first.

Would that be a breach of the rules or spirit of the game?

[FuzzyJuzzy]

I think putting, and the game of golf in general, should be more art than science. Also, is it just me or do the pros these days rely waaaayyyyy too much on their caddies? It just seems like they'd be lost and not know what to do a lot of the time if they didn't have their caddie there next to them.

[wazamac]

True.
There are only a handful of players now that only ask for a caddies advice on the green when they are having trouble reading the putt.
Most times if they are having trouble, they are looking for break that isn't there.

Since our club bought one of the Air2G2 machines so we don't have to core anymore, this has changed the breaks on our greens from what they were. This said, greens may not be the same in 2 months time once the soil is disturbed or broken up under the green.

[BUSHY]

I think putting, and the game of golf in general, should be more art than science. Also, is it just me or do the pros these days rely waaaayyyyy too much on their caddies? It just seems like they'd be lost and not know what to do a lot of the time if they didn't have their caddie there next to them.

100% agree and if you watched the Zurich you might have noticed that Kevin Kisner read ALL putts for their team. Scott Brown didn't read anything except to get his line subject to Kevins read.

[jimandr]

I was going to put this observation in the PGA thread, but as the Web Tour technically isn't the PGA, and the issue is the same, I'll post here.

The Web Tour are allowing the players to use laser range finders this week. I think it is the first of a number of trial events to see what will happen.

I was only half-watching the Web coverage today, so I wasn't really paying attention to whether it helped to speed up play or not, but if it does, I'm all for it.

To my mind, ever since distance markers were introduced on sprinkler heads, the information is available to all, so the more information the better. I understand the counter argument that it takes away part of the skill of reading the shot, but with so much info already available, I don't really see that as a valid objection.

I don't think using lasers will change much. Bubba Watson will still blame his caddy, and I can see Robert Allenby throwing his laser into the nearest dam on a regular basis.

Of course, it may make the decision making process even slower, being just another source of info that needs to be checked and double checked before the player pulls the trigger.

[3Puttpete]

To my mind, ever since distance markers were introduced on sprinkler heads, the information is available to all, so the more information the better. I understand the counter argument that it takes away part of the skill of reading the shot, but with so much info already available, I don't really see that as a valid objection.

This

[BUSHY]

I was going to put this observation in the PGA thread, but as the Web Tour technically isn't the PGA, and the issue is the same, I'll post here.

The Web Tour are allowing the players to use laser range finders this week. I think it is the first of a number of trial events to see what will happen.

I was only half-watching the Web coverage today, so I wasn't really paying attention to whether it helped to speed up play or not, but if it does, I'm all for it.

To my mind, ever since distance markers were introduced on sprinkler heads, the information is available to all, so the more information the better. I understand the counter argument that it takes away part of the skill of reading the shot, but with so much info already available, I don't really see that as a valid objection.

I don't think using lasers will change much. Bubba Watson will still blame his caddy, and I can see Robert Allenby throwing his laser into the nearest dam on a regular basis.

Of course, it may make the decision making process even slower, being just another source of info that needs to be checked and double checked before the player pulls the trigger.

I watched most of the coverage, they spoke about it at length. Web.com are trialling over four weeks through June with other trials taking place on the Latino and McKenzie tours.

This event is a pro am so the times this week are a good baseline to work from given theyre regularly 5+ hrs.

So far it's been noted that players are using it as a check only. Habits are to find a sprinkler head and pace then the caddy or player are confirming with the laser. I understand that because it's a new thing and it might take a while to become the norm. It has also been noted that the four events selected for the trial are completely different courses in terms of course style, typical speed, times etc.

Be interesting to see the end result, given they have already deemed the ball doesn't go further might be a complete waste of time.