Course Discussion (Lakelands Day Off-topic)

[Eag's]

Lakelands is an ordinary layout (sorry shavey) The Pines is in a different league and the Palms is slightly better that Jacks monstrosity.

Bloody hell Moe, you are a tuff bloke to please
How bout you give us a list of courses you do like, should be a short list.

[Moe Norman]

Eags - I look at the course, not the condition of the course when defining what I like.

Courses I like in QLD include the following.

Indooroopilly East and/or Composite
Noosa Tewantin
Brisbane
Brookwater
Pacific Harbour
Robina Woods
Hope Island
Ipswich
Bribie Island
Wynnum
Laguna Quays
Club Pelican
Hyatt Coolum

Courses that are ok, but not worth paying more than $30 for:

RQ
Glades
Grand
Colonial
Twin Waters

Courses that aren't particularly good courses that I enjoy playing because they don't try and be something they're not:

Nudgee
Oxley
Macleod
Windaroo
Keperra
Gailes

Courses that are genuinely terrible layouts with large budgets:

North Lakes
Royal Pines
Lakelands
Noosa Springs
any other gold coast resort course I've blocked from my memory.

Courses in QLD I'd rank in the Top 20 in Australia:

none

[goughy]

Well, I can afford to play the not particularily good courses and a few of the 'I like' courses. I don't think I've ever paid more than 25 or 30bucks for 18 holes before, so you can guess how many of the resort style courses I've played.

You should come to toowoomba and play Royal Eustondale. Most of the courses you listed would be moved into you 'I like' category after that.

The list of courses I've played total 11. And usually never more than $20, sometimes up to $30, but never over that.

I'd be interested in g69's truthful opinion of city gc since watson and co are doing reno work up here. And it is a significant change occuring over past and upcoming years too. At least we've got a clubhouse to rival many or most

[Moe Norman]

I've played City and Middle Ridge many times.

I'd include Middle Ridge in between the courses I like and courses I enjoy range.

To be honest, if the green fee is less than $20 and there are 18 greens I'll play anywhere. Hell I've played plenty of games at Jindalee and there are only 9 greens there

[TS]

Isn't he staying at Sanctuary cove???? Which means he could play the Pines course. The palms course is very short and a bit rough in places. A bit like Gainsborough Greens in some ways. (apologies to anyone I've offended) I've heard good things about the Pines course though...

I had played the Pines before and I think it cost $130. The course's condition wasn't too good when I played it. Won't be playing there anytime soon for that sort of money.

[Fishman Dan]

Goughy - interesting comment that your total of courses is 11! I remember compiling a spreadsheet at one stage and even i was up to something like 30, and i wouldn't have touched that for a year?!

Got to admit, i'll be in holiday mode staying in plush - paid for - accomodation, so i figure if i splash out then i'm kinda still ahead. I think the Pines is a go-er for me because of the opportunity, no other reason.

Having threadjacked Shavey, i feel obliged to have a crack at Lakelands at some stage, though it doesn't look like it will be this trip.

[Moe Norman]

Fishy,

Robina will do you a good deal for a walk up rate. Less than $50 I'd imagine and sh!ts all over most of the other courses down there

[Andrew]

Thommo,

Interesting list of courses there. You must love those resort courses.

[Fishman Dan]

Thommo - done Robina. While i didn't mind it, if i was going to repeat a course i'd be back at Hope Island in a flash. Loved playing there, if for nothing else than when it started to rain the staff came around with towels for us.

[BrisWesty]

Thommo,
Where do Caboolture & Woodford fit in your list? <$20 & 18 holes.

[goughy]

I've played City and Middle Ridge many times.

I'd include Middle Ridge in between the courses I like and courses I enjoy range.

I notice your subtle lack of mentioning where city would sit in your list

BUT, we've got a big clubhouse and probably one of the cheapest membership rates going around (maybe even cheaper than jindalee). And did I mention we're cheap. Are you getting the theme of what would be my top category for a golf club preference listing (if Best and Lest made a course it'd have to sit near the top )

[shavey]

Well, I held my tongue for as long as I could...

I realise this thread has gone a little off the topic but I realise you can't please everybody with course design. But sometimes it's a little hard to distance myself from work as I rate 'my' course far superior to anything on the coast. We try to sell an experience where most courses are more than happy to take your money and send you on your way. And I must disagree about course conditioning not being a factor as this can dramtically effect your overall enjoyment. What is the use of playing a great layout with poor course conditioning? But again, each to their own..

That being said though, I challenge any of you to play Lakelands from the plates as it's a completely different course, and like many courses, the way it is meant to be played. I remember the scores that came in from the last years warm-up round (played from the blue markers) prior to Cooly-Tweed and there weren't too many breaking handicap.

I realise that I may have missed the point with some of the views expressed but personally, I rate courses that are enjoyable yet challenging, well conditioned and provide options from tee to green.

This is probably just another thread waiting to happen but I love my job, my course and won't have anybody saying a bad word about it!

[Moe Norman]

Where do Caboolture & Woodford fit in your list? <$20 & 18 holes.

haven't had the pleasure of playing Woodford, but I'll play any course thats green fee is under $20 and has 18 holes. Caboolture charges what it's worth, nothing more, nothing less. I don't think they set out to design a top 10 course but it's a fine establishment to play golf.

And I must disagree about course conditioning not being a factor as this can dramtically effect your overall enjoyment. What is the use of playing a great layout with poor course conditioning? But again, each to their own..

That being said though, I challenge any of you to play Lakelands from the plates as it's a completely different course, and like many courses, the way it is meant to be played. I remember the scores that came in from the last years warm-up round (played from the blue markers) prior to Cooly-Tweed and there weren't too many breaking handicap.

Course conditioning is a factor, but a less important one. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and I understand most will differ, especially when a 'home course' in on the menu.

Having said that, the current condition of RM is poor at best but there aren't many courses in Australia I'd prefer to play despite it's poor condition.

I play every course from the plates on my first visit. Perhaps you have a differing view on what makes a course good. I couldn't care less if it's hard, or whether it's par is 72 I just like good golf courses and again I refer back to RM and I apologise for using it as a point of reference but I feel its the best one to compare to as it's widely accepted as Australia's best course and is in the World Top 10. RM is one of the easier courses you're likely to play and should be Par 69 at best, difficulty doesn't mean good. Look at Moonah Links, it's a turd. For a more brash example, Hills International is freaking tough but about as boring and uninspiring as golf gets.

Nice grass, lots of water, long holes, big scores and a great players signature do not make a great course. But again, these features may make a course great to others and it all boils down to opinion, and in this case mine differs.

I think I'll stick to equipment from now on, as I think I'm in the minority when it comes to my thoughts on what makes a golf course great.

But here is a picture of my holy grail, perhaps we might have some converts.




and the hole that follows is twice as good. That's a pretty good hole for 125m though!

[Keza_G]

This is probably just another thread waiting to happen but I love my job, my course and won't have anybody saying a bad word about it!

HERE HERE...

I am the same way about my course to Shavey. When you focus your energies on something you love doing, one can get offended when others dump on it... Being in the industry I have come to realise that all the hard work and effort that goes into course conditioning, promotion and day to day running can go out the door with one smart **** comment.

I know for a fact that Shavey and I have offered a lot of "Ozgolfer rates"... "dumping" on our courses will only see these special dissappear... i dont care if you don't like our courses, but as a job ... I LOVE IT.

Cheers

Keza

[Moe Norman]

How can you be offended at criticism of a design that you're not responsible for that may even be a decent design given the land the course is built on?

I can understand you getting defensive about the club and/or the conditioning, but if you're not responsible for the layout why is it offensive when said layout is critiqued?

I'd play Lakelands or Riverlakes in a flash if it wre an ozgolf day, but if I am looking to play a course that appeals to my senses and I'll enjoy purely for the design I wouldn't go to either.

[Grunt]

That to me is one of the greatest holes I have ever seen. Was the pic taken from the tee block? I guess I will get to play there one day.

[Grunt]

Well Keza & Shavey,

If it takes one of us to say we would play you courses in a second, here it is remember I was going to do this earlier in the year before my little medical thingy.

Not sure when I will get up there next but I will.

[Keza_G]

How can you be offended at criticism of a design that you're not responsible for that may even be a decent design given the land the course is built on?

It's a pride thing... I get offended if someone doesn't like my home... and I didn't build it.... but I put in the effort to make it inviting....

[Grunt]

Keza, that is a great statement and should be used by everyone here in what ever it is that they do.

[peter_rs]

Moe have you played the grand? I would rate it much higher.

[AndyP]

Moe have you played the grand? I would rate it much higher.

It was in his lists.

[Andrew]

It depends what sort of courses you are rating it against. If it is being compared to RMW or TOC or Bethpage Black, then most courses wouldn’t rate well against such opposition.

The other consideration, & the great thing about golf, is that everybody can love the game for a different reason. My main love regarding the game is golf course architecture. Conditioning & preferential treatment isn’t high on my list. I’ve played many extremely well conditioned courses (mostly American) that were just not very good courses.

Like I said, that’s the great thing about golf. Where as I love GCA, someone else may love good conditioning. Another person may play golf to be with his or her mates. Another may like being treated special. Another may like the quality of the hotdogs at the halfway house.

Shavey & Keza. Keep defending your home courses. You both probably know them better than most & great golf clubs can only be built on the love their members have for their club. Remember, people will always have differing opinions of your home course, but if you love the place, then that’s the main thing.

[TS]

Shavey

You can put me down as one of the few that enjoy playing Lakeland. I prefer Lakeland than The Pines. The condition of The Pines was poor when I play it couple of years back. And no drink cart was on the course that day, 4.5 hours without a drink in Qld is not fun.

TS

[Fishman Dan]

Shavey / Keza - I agree with Thommo on this one, be prepared to take some criticism. However, i haven't played either so i don't have a view on either track except to say that it runs rings around my home course(s). The game is still fun, even if we can't all be Royal Melbourne composite.

At the end of the day however rest assured that i'd gladly play either.

[goughy]

Heck, I can get defensive of my home course City GC, and most would wonder why!