The Politics Thread

[3Puttpete]

Well said


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[dan]

I'm curious, do you read the telegraph before switching on 2gb or the other way around? Highly doubtful you could do both simultaneously.

Don't listen to radio, haven't bought a paper in 10 years nor set foot in sydney in that time. I detest tony as much as mr sheen so don't pigeon hole me. It's the bleeding hearts who think morality should trump common sense.

[goughy]

What Moe said. Is it we need to stop the smugglers, nip it at the source. It's not like they're putting them on the qe2 to get here. They're sticking them on the worst, most unseaworthy boats they can find. But how do you stop them without Indonesia's help? And do they wanna help at all, or are they just happily to get them off their shores? I mean, they refused to extradite that smuggler here for charging, so it would seem they don't wanna stop them.

[razaar]

Actually there was an interesting point raised on Paul Murray Live yesterday - why is Christmas Island ( which is 360 nautical miles from Indonesia and 1,000+ miles from Australia) still part of Australia. The boat people only have to navigate 360 miles and they are in Australia? I guess we couldn't give it away?

[Daves]

Actually there was an interesting point raised on Paul Murray Live yesterday - why is Christmas Island ( which is 360 nautical miles from Indonesia and 1,000+ miles from Australia) still part of Australia. The boat people only have to navigate 360 miles and they are in Australia? I guess we couldn't give it away?

Quite the opposite, it gives us all those extra Territorial waters and all the upside benefits that come with them; Defense, Mineral/Oil/Gas, Fishing etc etc.

[razaar]

Quite the opposite, it gives us all those extra Territorial waters and all the upside benefits that come with them; Defense, Mineral/Oil/Gas, Fishing etc etc.

I tried researching that Dave, couldn't find much about it. Where did you get those facts from?

[IanO]

The question on stopping the boats should first look at why they risk their lives on those boats and that seems to be that they spend up to 7 years in refugee camps waiting to be processed. In those camps they have starvation, disease assault and many other risks to their lives.

If the processing of people in those camps could be reduced then there would be no need for the boats. (Shortened for brevity)

[Daves]

I tried researching that Dave, couldn't find much about it. Where did you get those facts from?

Plenty of info about it if you Google it Ray. Here is an article that gives you some sense of its (and Cocos Island) importance;

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/LF25Ad01.html

[razaar]

Plenty of info about it if you Google it Ray. Here is an article that gives you some sense of its (and Cocos Island) importance;

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/LF25Ad01.html

thanks Dave. I couldn't find anything about economic data. Personally I find it difficult to see how the group of islands in our immigration zone really benefit us economically in these times. Those in power do, but it is not obvious to me. If anything they are proving to be a drain on our resources.

[Daves]

thanks Dave. I couldn't find anything about economic data. Personally I find it difficult to see how the group of islands in our immigration zone really benefit us economically in these times. Those in power do, but it is not obvious to me. If anything they are proving to be a drain on our resources.

I think you will find that Christmas Island was excluded from our Immigration Zone by the Howard Government. Not sure about Cocos.?

[razaar]

I think you will find that Christmas Island was excluded from our Immigration Zone by the Howard Government. Not sure about Cocos.?

yep Christmas Island was excluded from our Migration Zone, not sure it means much in light of the legislation to exclude mainland Australia from the Migration Zone. Can you understand what that is about?

[3Puttpete]

yep Christmas Island was excluded from our Migration Zone, not sure it means much in light of the legislation to exclude mainland Australia from the Migration Zone. Can you understand what that is about?

It's about restricting access to avenues of appeal if a decision on refugee status and asylum claim is unfavourable.

[PeteyD]

It is to stop them from being able to appeal the decision inthe Australian court system.

[razaar]

I thought it was to apply the same policy that existed to the offshore excluded territories (Christmas Island, norfolk Island) in the event that a boat load of illegal immigrants landed on the mainland.

[3Puttpete]

Wikipedia knows:

In an excised area, an unauthorised arrival has no right to apply for a visa. Asylum seekers who land in an excised area of Australian territory, may apply for refugee status with the UNHCR. However, Australia has no obligation to grant them a visa to settle permanently in Australia (as opposed to temporary protection) and they have no recourse to Australian courts.

The Acts also included the powers to move unauthorised arrivals to another country where their claim for protection could be considered. These changes allowed for thousands of asylum seekers to be moved to immigration detention facilities on Christmas Island, Nauru, and Manus Island.


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[markTHEblake]

I remain somewhat bemused by all of this, what is it exactly with the latest "stop the boats" policy of bouncing them all to PNG is everyone whining about.

I am not a Labor supporter, I hope they get relegated to a minority party, but I really do not see anything wrong with Rudds latest scheme, except that it will improve his chances of re-election

[liptout]

I remain somewhat bemused by all of this, what is it exactly with the latest "stop the boats" policy of bouncing them all to PNG is everyone whining about.

I am not a Labor supporter, I hope they get relegated to a minority party, but I really do not see anything wrong with Rudds latest scheme, except that it will improve his chances of re-election

Well firstly, it's not every single arrival will end up there.
If your a woman, you don't go
If your a child, you don't go
If your a family, you don't go
If your sick,nyou don't go
If your considered a safety security, you don't go.

So if your a single male, between 18 and say 35, you'll be the only ones that end up there........


And that's not even mentioning the different religion aspects as to why this whole scheme can't work. A deeply catholic country going to be run over with mainly Muslims......how do you think that will end up going down??

[markTHEblake]

Well firstly, it's not every single arrival will end up there.

I am not sure if you think that is a negative or a positive for Australia.

And that's not even mentioning the different religion aspects as to why this whole scheme can't work. A deeply catholic country going to be run over with mainly Muslims......how do you think that will end up going down??

the alternative is to let Australia to be run over with mainly muslims? I think that is a shit of an idea.

[liptout]

IMO its a negative for Aus, cause we still end up with 3/4 of them here...... If you say your gona send every ILLEGAL arrival there, then send every ILLEGAL there........

And yes, it is a shit of an idea. One that I hope comes back to kick Rudd straight up the ass!! But I can see it not having a pretty end over there because of it, which Nobody wants to see......

[markTHEblake]

i have not seen any of the stuff you mentioned reported or discussed. All i have heard is that all boats go to PNG
Nevertheless some asylum seekers admit Rudds plan will stop the boats.
http://www.news.com.au/national-news...-1226682491915

[Daves]

But isn't the idea to stop the boats?, because is is only the illegal arrivals that will go to PNG as I understand it. If there are no boat arrivals, no one will go to PNG I assume.

Legal Humanitarian Immigration will continue, it is already running at high levels apparently (highest per Capita intake in the world I have read). You would hope that the PNG deal or any similar plan to stop the boats is complimented by a further increase in our intake of Humanitarian cases through official channels.

My concern with the PNG deal is more to do with how it will actually be run operationally. We are already seeing what appear to be extraordinary levels of Mal-adminstration on Nauru and Manus Island. I can't see PNG being any better. Let's hope the boats do stop.

[damoocow]

Not sure how much monetary aid we give to Thailand but maybe cancelling that may kickstart a response?

[Hatchman]

Where's the data on how many boats get stopped from launching from the country where everyone's getting on at the start.
I'm interested to know if it's any at all.

[markTHEblake]

Hatchman, I imagine there is no law against a non-resident leaving a country.

[Daves]

Where's the data on how many boats get stopped from launching from the country where everyone's getting on at the start.
I'm interested to know if it's any at all.

What about the journeys before they get on the boats? It is a long, long way from Iraq, Syria, Pakistan etc to Indonesia. Why do they choose these routes over other options for Asylum? Is Australia the only realistic option for them? Why don't they pursue a variety of destinations?