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30th November 2012 12:20 PM
#1
Senior Member
Order of Merit winner
TourFit v idgolfguy
I guess we'd better get this done... the vertically but not talent challenged pygmies to battle it out over 18 gruelling burgers holes.
Best for me is a Sunday at the moment, due to my F.I.L. committments at this time of the year, but may be tempted to do a midweek round. Also happy to do The Vines if it is more convenient for you on a Sunday (I've played there a LOT over the years, so I wouldn't feel disadvantaged at it being your home track)
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24th December 2012 04:18 AM
#76
Senior Member
Touring Pro (European Tour)
Are we not mentioning the C word?
Well done Fit on a chance of defending, huge effort.
Off the stick?
Why exactly do I need to answer to you?
Nullarbor Cup Record 4-0-0
UnCivil War Record 2-0-0
GSM Best Finish: 1st
Vic Champs Best Finish: Tied 4th
Number of Times beating DC: 1
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24th December 2012 11:17 AM
#77
Senior Member
Touring Pro (PGA)
Re: TourFit v idgolfguy
Originally Posted by
Shadesy
Are we not mentioning the C word?
Well done Fit on a chance of defending, huge effort.
Off the stick?
Didn't feel like I choked, as there was no tension at anytime. Just couldn't execute the shots I wanted to play like I did earlier in the round. I did get a couple of unfortunate breaks that is part of the game.
Off-the-stick? That is just stupidity and ego, and letting your little head think for the big head. One is a B-Grader, the other is an A-Grader, why would the lesser player give up the advantage. That is just poor strategy. Giving up your competitive advantage means you have just lost the first battle. The first battle is the foundation of what comes ahead.
We both played to our handicap. And in the play-off, the better player won.
There is no reason why 'Fit can't win on a hole-by-hole basis, but having the extra shots is insurance and puts the onus on the other player to step-up, who is supposedly the better player.
Last edited by idgolfguy; 24th December 2012 at 11:35 AM.
"I don’t want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying."
- Woody Allen
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24th December 2012 11:27 AM
#78
Senior Member
Touring Pro (PGA)
Re: TourFit v idgolfguy
Originally Posted by
Golfnut
Glad it was a great match for you guys, well done Fit....amazing effort, comeback if the decade. Bad luck ID, I know you will be kicking yourself for letting this one slip but in the end the more current consistent golfer came through....I still rate you highly mate better luck next year.Oh and JC, eat a dick!
Thanks GN. For about 12 holes, I was in control, much like most rounds I play these days. Just have difficulty sustaining that level of focus these days. It was similar to our round at Champs. Possibly don't have the ticker for it anymore as John Howard would say.
As for next year, probably not. Can't be fussed about the rubbish that goes with it. Hopefully, my son will get more into Golf, and probably focus on that.
"I don’t want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying."
- Woody Allen
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24th December 2012 11:31 AM
#79
Senior Member
Golf Hall of Fame Inductee
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24th December 2012 11:39 AM
#80
Senior Member
Touring Pro (PGA)
Re: TourFit v idgolfguy
Originally Posted by
Yossarian
What rubbish?
Poor choice of words. Just over Matchplay and golf at the moment. I haven't played Matchplay at club level for a couple of years and don't miss it.
"I don’t want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying."
- Woody Allen
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24th December 2012 03:48 PM
#81
Senior Member
Touring Pro (Nationwide Tour)
Originally Posted by
TourFit
It's not ALWAYS about you, Buffy!
That's my point Fit. At the moment it's not and am not afraid to admit that light heartedly. Just prob chose the wrong thread to.Well done again Fit. Despite those slower/sandier greens than usual, your putting was fantastic. Great roll and almost every first putt went past the hole OR in.Your short game was on fire. Too see how good that's going, really demostrates that your game is in a great place.Great work also in making your second final in succession.
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24th December 2012 07:01 PM
#82
Senior Member
Touring Pro (European Tour)
Originally Posted by
idgolfguy
Didn't feel like I choked, as there was no tension at anytime. Just couldn't execute the shots I wanted to play like I did earlier in the round. I did get a couple of unfortunate breaks that is part of the game.
Please take no offence....but not executing the shots you want down the stretch whilst under pressure is called?
I felt no nerves when blowing a one shot lead with a back 9 53 in the club champs. But after analyzing it after I found I changed my game plan and mindset ever so slightly, and copped my share of ridicule. 3 months later, I have a merit bar.
Originally Posted by
idgolfguy
Off-the-stick? That is just stupidity and ego, and letting your little head think for the big head. One is a B-Grader, the other is an A-Grader, why would the lesser player give up the advantage. That is just poor strategy. Giving up your competitive advantage means you have just lost the first battle. The first battle is the foundation of what comes ahead.
We both played to our handicap. And in the play-off, the better player won.
There is no reason why 'Fit can't win on a hole-by-hole basis, but having the extra shots is insurance and puts the onus on the other player to step-up, who is supposedly the better player.
This was in regards to the final. Tourfit is off 8 and JC could be 6. Form suggests TF, it's a final and I can't imagine 1-2 shots is worth it.
I disagree with most of what you have said above asI like the challenge of playing better golfers and (nearly) beating them. It's a mental game golf and the more challenges you can present mentally the more you learn IMO.
Simmsy also disagrees with me but I am young and naive in my golfing journey, and its not right or wrong, it's just how I like to improve my golf.
I am sure Fit will take his 2 shots or whatever.
I personally wouldn't. That's my choice and not forcing that on anyone else.
Why exactly do I need to answer to you?
Nullarbor Cup Record 4-0-0
UnCivil War Record 2-0-0
GSM Best Finish: 1st
Vic Champs Best Finish: Tied 4th
Number of Times beating DC: 1
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24th December 2012 07:33 PM
#83
Senior Member
Golf Hall of Fame Inductee
I would play it off the bat, as my history shows with SMS,but I don't expect, or necessarily want Tourfit to do the same. I might consider it the fair thing to do if we considered Lolly as the venue.
I will have to work my ass off to beat him with the way we are both playing, which is fine with me.
Sounds like this was a fun match to watch. One par from ID in the last 6 holes would have won it.
From a competition standpoint, I am happy that Fit won as I would much rather only give up a couple shots than a boatload to a guy that is capable of playing off singles.
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24th December 2012 08:30 PM
#84
Senior Member
Order of Merit winner
Originally Posted by
Shadesy
This was in regards to the final. Tourfit is off 8 and JC could be 6. Form suggests TF, it's a final and I can't imagine 1-2 shots is worth it.
I am sure Fit will take his 2 shots or whatever.
I personally wouldn't. That's my choice and not forcing that on anyone else.
I am now off 7...and I will take the full difference in our handicaps, whatever that may be. That is what I have given throughout the comp, 12 or 13 to Rubin and 7 to IDGG.
It was stated early on that this was a full handicap event. For those that between them want to play off 3/4, scratch or whatever, that is between the opponents on the day, and a choice that individuals can make. I do not agree with it personally, but my position has been consistent.
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24th December 2012 08:32 PM
#85
Senior Member
Golf Hall of Fame Inductee
Originally Posted by
TourFit
I am now off 7...and I will take the full difference in our handicaps, whatever that may be. That is what I have given throughout the comp, 12 or 13 to Rubin and 7 to IDGG.
It was stated early on that this was a full handicap event. For those that between them want to play off 3/4, scratch or whatever, that is between the opponents on the day, and a choice that individuals can make. I do not agree with it personally, but my position has been consistent.
If we played Lolly would you go off the bat?
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24th December 2012 08:37 PM
#86
Senior Member
Touring Pro (European Tour)
Fair enough Fit, especially as you have given up plenty of shots.
Plus John was lucky he played me off scratch, otherwise you would be champion by default (joking) again as I couldn't play the final. Unless we made it Carnoustie?
Why exactly do I need to answer to you?
Nullarbor Cup Record 4-0-0
UnCivil War Record 2-0-0
GSM Best Finish: 1st
Vic Champs Best Finish: Tied 4th
Number of Times beating DC: 1
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24th December 2012 08:57 PM
#87
Senior Member
Touring Pro (PGA)
Re: TourFit v idgolfguy
Regardless of the potential, handicaps don't lie, much like statistics. There is a vast difference between someone who plays off 4 (±4) and 12 (±.
'Fit is playing well as he is at the lowest he has ever played to. JC isn't playing well and is out to the worst he could get to (or close to anchor). JC's anchor is a little worst than 'Fit's best.
Why wouldn't I give up the couple of shots advantage in a matchplay if I was 'Fit. I haven't actually written my thoughts on our round.
'Fit won not because he played well as there were 10 or 12 holes that he didn't. He rallied well to come in shooting 4 pars and a birdie on a course that he plays regularly.
I knew I had him beat by the end of the 9th as I still had 4 more shots on the 2nd half of our match and I was 3UP with two lost holes. I need to add, that I was not 3UP because of my handicap. I should have capitalised further when I got to 5 up. One of those was because of a shot.
I relaxed, talked a lot more, experimented a little more and changed my pre-shot routine and demeanor. I don't have that mental discipline anymore. It's not the type of golf I enjoy. I used to be capable of it, hence my strong MP record in Div 4 even though I was never below 14HC during that time. The guys would have noticed my lack of anxiousness or urgency when I didn't close. There were a couple of turning points, when things didn't go my way. 'Fit consolidated well.
'Fit shot 35 pts, with the bulk of this points coming in those last holes. JC won't let that happen. JC is likely to play to 4 or 5 and a bad round, to 7 or 8. 'Fit has to play 3 or 4 shots better than his HC to play to JC's handicap.
This is not making light of 'Fit's golfing ability nor his win over me. If this Matchplay was about survival, what would you do?
"I don’t want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying."
- Woody Allen
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24th December 2012 09:20 PM
#88
Senior Member
Touring Pro (PGA)
Re: TourFit v idgolfguy
Shadesy, my thoughts in your MP against JC was that I thought JC had bullied you into it and I apologise now, JC. Your ego had gotten the better of you.
Both your scores weren't great, but JC always had the better hand because he is a better player than you.
Golf is funny that way. You may think you got hard done by or the other player had a couple of bounces that favoured them.
Gary Player's motto, the more I practice, the luckier I get sums it up. Someone who is better skilled, can seem to make it look easier or lucky.
I didnt understand what you were trying to achieve. Your focus in that MP, was to prove that you are better than yourself? Don't get that. If you wanted to prove that you are a better player than JC, the MP was not the forum. Just get a better HC than him. That proves it more. If you had beaten him, all it proved was that he had a bad day or you had a really god day.
With regard to Champs, it was a handicapped event which showed that you played to or better than your handicap against every other handicapped player. It was not a measure of golfing ability.
Handicapped events mean just that, measured success against a scaled baseline. It is not about ability.
What I am saying is that the OZGolf matchplay is a handicapped event, why would you play it any other way.
"I don’t want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying."
- Woody Allen
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24th December 2012 09:21 PM
#89
Senior Member
Order of Merit winner
Well, all of my MP rounds were exciting games with Mega, Rubin and Idgg going late into the game. I managed to beat Mega on the 17th, Rubin on the 17th and Idgg on the 19th. Matchplay played off the bat by two completely mismatched handicaps would make for a short game, and a not very exciting one. It also puts much more undue pressure on only ONE opponent.
That is part of WHY I am completely happy to give full handicap differential to higher 'cap players, to make it an even field. Sure, higher handicappers may well have a stretch of holes that make it nearly impossible for a lower 'capper to win the hole. But they are partial to a blow up as well. The challenge of the lower marker is to make sure they stay in the game best they can, and do what they can when needed.
I thought I was NO CHANCE yesterday after Vic shot 21 pts on the first 9. He was 3up with three shots in the next 4 holes. As far as I'm concerned, that was pretty much the best rush I've ever had in any match. Having said that Victor, as we all know, is such a laid back guy and was a great opponent and has been very generous.
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24th December 2012 09:28 PM
#90
Senior Member
Touring Pro (European Tour)
Originally Posted by
Shadesy
Plus John was lucky he played me off scratch, otherwise you would be champion by default (joking) again as I couldn't play the final. Unless we made it Carnoustie?
Not to mention fortunate he was able to dodge the Super Sub in the first round...
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24th December 2012 09:36 PM
#91
Senior Member
Touring Pro (PGA)
Re: TourFit v idgolfguy
Originally Posted by
Johnny Canuck
I would play it off the bat, as my history shows with SMS,but I don't expect, or necessarily want Tourfit to do the same. I might consider it the fair thing to do if we considered Lolly as the venue.
I will have to work my ass off to beat him with the way we are both playing, which is fine with me.
Sounds like this was a fun match to watch. One par from ID in the last 6 holes would have won it.
From a competition standpoint, I am happy that Fit won as I would much rather only give up a couple shots than a boatload to a guy that is capable of playing off singles.
I would agree, JC. One par in five holes could have done it. Having made 9 pars (7 in reg) and an easy birdie, I found it hard to fathom that I couldn't salvage a half in any of those 5 holes. Just goes to show that there is something mental going on.
In terms of MP, I would never give away any competitive advantage to you. You are just too good a player.
As I stated in the previous post, I don't think 'Fit played that well for 2/3 of the round. I was ahead by shooting pars and birdies. 'Fit wasn't close on a few of the early holes. The thought of so many shots given meant that he had to press before we even teed off on a couple of holes.
You giving him 2 shots means that you'd have to shoot a 76 or 78 to be competitive, you've done that a lit more than him. For him to shoot the same he would have to play at or better.
"I don’t want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying."
- Woody Allen
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24th December 2012 10:02 PM
#92
Senior Member
Golf Hall of Fame Inductee
I feel like I haven't shot 76-78 in 2012.
I had nothing at all to do with Shades. I tried to steer clear on the cap debate as my view would be taken as "tainted"being the low capper.
I did suggest it to Veeman, in response to some smack talk, simply stating that if he wanted to talk the talk, walk the walk.
You did give up your competitive advantage against the Nuffster, or whatever he is now known as.
Fit and I should stay away from our home courses and play a neutral venue, like Kennedy Bay.
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24th December 2012 10:04 PM
#93
Senior Member
Order of Merit winner
Originally Posted by
Shadesy
Fair enough Fit, especially as you have given up plenty of shots.
Plus John was lucky he played me off scratch, otherwise you would be champion by default (joking) again as I couldn't play the final. Unless we made it Carnoustie?
But for that damned fence at KB, eh?
I would almost be tempted to travel back to Carnoustie just to play there again. Beating you in the MP would've been perfect!
Having said that, I am thinking of either Marri Park or Maylands for the final
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24th December 2012 10:06 PM
#94
Senior Member
Touring Pro (European Tour)
Originally Posted by
idgolfguy
Shadesy, my thoughts in your MP against JC was that I thought JC had bullied you into it and I apologise now, JC. Your ego had gotten the better of you.Both your scores weren't great, but JC always had the better hand because he is a better player than you.Golf is funny that way. You may think you got hard done by or the other player had a couple of bounces that favoured them. Gary Player's motto, the more I practice, the luckier I get sums it up. Someone who is better skilled, can seem to make it look easier or lucky.I didnt understand what you were trying to achieve. Your focus in that MP, was to prove that you are better than yourself? Don't get that. If you wanted to prove that you are a better player than JC, the MP was not the forum. Just get a better HC than him. That proves it more. If you had beaten him, all it proved was that he had a bad day or you had a really god day.With regard to Champs, it was a handicapped event which showed that you played to or better than your handicap against every other handicapped player. It was not a measure of golfing ability.Handicapped events mean just that, measured success against a scaled baseline. It is not about ability.What I am saying is that the OZGolf matchplay is a handicapped event, why would you play it any other way.
No ego, and I always stated JC was a better golfer. Also the handicap system is too fluid that if played JC now he would Give me 7 shots instead of 5. That's another discussion.You have accepted that your handicap is what it is and I don't believe that yet. You are also struggling to close out rounds and finish strong which I also had a problem in doing.I played JC off scratch to challenge myself against the best Ozgolfer. I wanted to become better mentally as I struggle with it and golf is the battle between you and nothing else.It wasn't about winning for me.I have never asked any bowler to bowl slower for me, or a footballer to not run as fast, because they were better than me. I looked inwardly at myself and tried to make myself better...Why should golf be any different?
Why exactly do I need to answer to you?
Nullarbor Cup Record 4-0-0
UnCivil War Record 2-0-0
GSM Best Finish: 1st
Vic Champs Best Finish: Tied 4th
Number of Times beating DC: 1
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24th December 2012 10:10 PM
#95
Senior Member
Golf Hall of Fame Inductee
Originally Posted by
TourFit
But for that damned fence at KB, eh?I would almost be tempted to travel back to Carnoustie just to play there again. Beating you in the MP would've been perfect!Having said that, I am thinking of either Marri Park or Maylands for the final
Marri Park is probably the only course on Perth I refuse to play. Is Petenoustie taking bookings?
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24th December 2012 10:32 PM
#96
Senior Member
Touring Pro (PGA)
Re: TourFit v idgolfguy
Originally Posted by
Shadesy
...Why should golf be any different?
I apologise if I made the wrong assumption about ego.
Cricket is played in grades but not handicapped. Golf isnt. It depends on the circumstances or the competition format. At the amateur, it is played in grades and handicapped. There are events throughout the year that are open to lower handicaps and played off the stick.
I don't agree with our Matchplay format but it is what it is.
Golf is inclusive because of its grading and handicapping.
"I don’t want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying."
- Woody Allen
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24th December 2012 10:47 PM
#97
Senior Member
Touring Pro (European Tour)
Originally Posted by
idgolfguy
I apologise if I made the wrong assumption about ego.
Cricket is played in grades but not handicapped. Golf isnt. It depends on the circumstances or the competition format. At the amateur, it is played in grades and handicapped. There are events throughout the year that are open to lower handicaps and played off the stick.
I don't agree with our Matchplay format but it is what it is.
Golf is inclusive because of its grading and handicapping.
As i said mate, I don't believe anyone is right or wrong, it's just how I like to think about the game and the improvements I need to make.
I am setting a goal of 7 this year which I am under no illusions how difficult it will be.
Why exactly do I need to answer to you?
Nullarbor Cup Record 4-0-0
UnCivil War Record 2-0-0
GSM Best Finish: 1st
Vic Champs Best Finish: Tied 4th
Number of Times beating DC: 1
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24th December 2012 10:50 PM
#98
Senior Member
Golf Hall of Fame Inductee
Originally Posted by
Shadesy
As i said mate, I don't believe anyone is right or wrong, it's just how I like to think about the game and the improvements I need to make.I am setting a goal of 7 this year which I am under no illusions how difficult it will be.
Race to 7?
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24th December 2012 11:00 PM
#99
Senior Member
Touring Pro (PGA)
Re: TourFit v idgolfguy
Originally Posted by
Shadesy
As i said mate, I don't believe anyone is right or wrong, it's just how I like to think about the game and the improvements I need to make.
I am setting a goal of 7 this year which I am under no illusions how difficult it will be.
Good luck in your endeavour to reach 7. You have the potential. My own aspiration is to get to 10.
I agree to a point, but the nature of the OZGolf MP is a handicapped event. It would have been great to have seen the WA champ also the MP champ. Some poetry there.
"I don’t want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying."
- Woody Allen
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24th December 2012 11:00 PM
#100
Senior Member
Touring Pro (PGA)
Re: TourFit v idgolfguy
Originally Posted by
Johnny Canuck
Race to 7?
You just have to win!
What's your anchor?
"I don’t want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying."
- Woody Allen
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