Who knows your swing best?

[peter_rs]

Forget the idiocy of this question and the obvious answers.  You or your Swing coach?

I went back to my swing coach for a short game (pitching inward) plan to get better.  Before he looked at my short game he looked at my full swing.  I have always had an over swing and leg movement in my swing in the last year that has been reduced in my irons and a out-in swing changed to in-in.  Because he sees a short game plan as wanting to get between he wanted to adjust my setup again to reduce the leg movement even more (hips set closed and pushed forward ar la peter lonard (arm swing not body)) better the approach shots the easier time your short game has

I’m ok with the swing change (hard to do) but will to do it to try and improve.  I said I was have issues with driver shots eg if I use a LD swing & club I hit the fairway a long way down and 70% of the time.  With a golf driver and swing I’m shorter and I hit less fairways 50%.  Stats back this up in the last 5 rounds.  He wants me to drop the LD swing as it can effect my iron swing (I agree but I’m much happier with my tee game when using a LD swing- I trust it).  He cann’t see how my LD swing could be more accurate (relies more on timing).  As my upper body is not that strong I prefer a body swing for power.  Since I went back to a body swing for LD I have picked up 20mph, accuracy and distance.  I feel I have a lot more room to grow quickly with a body swing.  Or do I go back to basics for possible long term gain?

[Fishman Dan]

Just do what he tells you? Forget Long Driving if you want to enjoy 'golf'.

And next time you tell your coach how you want to play... don't. He doesn't want to hear it, unless you pay cash. In which case he probably doesn't care.

Do what he says andyou'll play better golf.

[jaster]

LD competition and golf are two totally different things. Long Driving competition is closer to baseball than golf IMO. In golf your mistakes make you pay, in LD you tee up again and have another go regardless of result just like baseball.

Golf is a game of finesse and a controlled powerful swing is the greatest asset you can bring to the game other than a good short game. A good short game can be learnt (to a point) but power is more natural, you either have it or you don't, sure you can get fitter and stronger but you still need a natural power base to really excel. Otherwise you would have heaps of middle aged body builders winning golf events right?

What are your goals in golf Pete? LD champion I would imagine requires a totally different mindset to a PGA Pro.

You need to decide.....

[peter_rs]

Fish-> I already enjoy my golf. and I enjoy LD and thats why I trying to get better at both.  I do pay for his time so I got care if he doesn't want to hear it.  For a pro to help you "I think" you have to work as a team.

Jaster-> You under rate LD you pay $40 to hit six balls in under 3min down a fairway as long as you can with a couple of hundered people watching you.  You only get six shots at it- how may shots do you have in a golf round .

The reailty is I have more chance of being a LD champ then a PGA pro.

I just think there should be a compromise (instead of fitting me into someone else swing model) I'm happy to work on my iron swing but if a JD swing with the driver works why cann't I do it, I think thats the swing were I great more natural power.

I gave my pro this example with putting I have good distance controll with a normal grip but I align better cross handed or shorter putts.  He said it was ok to use both eg long putts over 6m normal grip inside that cross handed.   Then what is the difference with having a iron and driver swing?

[Toolish]

The problem is how much time you have to put into a swing to get it right, to have 2 different swings I see as an issue, then again I see 2 putting strokes as an issue too. The more varients you have the harder it is to keep them all in tune.

[peter_rs]

I don't see the issuse that much Toolish.

If the two swings were a fade and a draw yes could be a problem. but the swings are more iron swing-peter lonard (short compact) LD swing-John Daly. Its better then trying to have two driver swings and a iron swing which I have been doing for the last six months, while i was starting in LD.

On putting I wish one stroke would work I'm trying to drop the cross handed but I still trust it if I start missing short ones.

[3oneday]

I always ask my Dad.

[peter_rs]

I don't know if your serious or taking the piss. I guess the later.

[BrisVegas]

Why is there a need to have a completely different swing for LD?  If you were to work on a more "traditional" looking swing that generates lots of coil in combination with a strong base, surely you could generate 120-130mph+.  I don't see how overswinging is helping either LD or golf.  All it's doing is making you more incosistent.  Wouldn't it be better to get all 6 of those LD's in the grid, rather than hoping one hits it???  I dunno, i could be wrong.

If you could get to say 130mph with a fairly consistent golf swing, then surely you'd be close to competitive with the longer LD club and properly fitted loft and flex etc...

Give proper golf technique a go first, before jumping ship to a John Daly overswing.  That skinny little guy at Willawong last week was 120+ mph without even trying, so technique, timing and fundamentals obviously have merit.  

EDIT: By working on sound golf fundamentals.... If LD doesn't pan out for you, you will have probably improved your golf game anyways.

[peter_rs]

an overswing gives you more time to create hand speed and lang.  You have to be alot stronger in the upper body to create the same speed over the shorter distance.  hence a skinny little guy is smaller (was trying and lost it at the end, the more I try with a LD swing the straighter I hit) and can do it easier then a fat guy like me. if I shorten my swing I lose 20mph straight away. yes technique will improve anyswing but do I use a swing model that fits your body and nature or a skinny little guy.

I'm not jumping ship to John daly just going back closer to my first swing. where my sholders turn over 140* and my hips turned 50*

[jaster]

Jaster-> You under rate LD you pay $40 to hit six balls in under 3min down a fairway as long as you can with a couple of hundered people watching you. You only get six shots at it- how may shots do you have in a golf round .

Under rate..nah sounds even more like baseball now except there are only 3 strikes in baseball

Seriously, it sounds like you are committed to the LD thing, if that is the case go find a Pro that is willing to work with you. More importantly have patience, I have played golf for over 20 years and started when I was 8. Results will take time and hard work, just keep playing and having fun

[BrisVegas]

an overswing gives you more time to create hand speed and lang.  You have to be alot stronger in the upper body to create the same speed over the shorter distance.

As I understand it, lag is maintaing wristcock as late as possible in the downswing before unleashing your hands through the ball as fast as possible.. It's got nothing to do with how far back you turn your shoulders, even if you can turn them 140 degrees... Have a look at guys like Sergio garcia, Charles Howell and Tezza and Trung to see what I mean.

The easiest way to speed is through the wrists. Having a strong body and generating resistance in your backswing only allows you to deliver your hands into the hitting zone a little faster.

hence a skinny little guy is smaller

ummm, yeah I guess.

[peter_rs]

I'm committed to try to improve at golf(including LD) and I will try the changes just means I will have two driver swings.

Just after windaroo I was thinking I do most things ok but I drive well- whenever I play safe I *** up. It was fun to have the other team pull the piss out of my swing and then hit drives 50m past there best hits all day. The five marker said I should think about using a LD driver swing all the time (when he ask if I was just going after it because of the ambrose format) because he couldn't believe how long & controlled I was and that it would take preasure of the rest of my game. One thing that I think is true in general that he said "Golf is a game of power not control anymore look at the top guys driver, wedge LEARN TO HIT THE WEDGES, you are better of to hit a wedge from the rought on a good line then 7iron from the fairway". I know this is not always true- but there is truth to it.

[peter_rs]

BV you are right on the lag. what I was getting at is if you have high hand speed a compact swing is great. if your hand speed is slower then a longer swing which keeps accelerating will get to the same hand speed at impact.

[Trung]

Have a look at guys like Sergio garcia, Charles Howell and Tezza and Trung to see what I mean.  

[BrisVegas]

BV you are right on the lag.  what I was getting at is if you have high hand speed a compact swing is great. if your hand speed is slower then a longer swing which keeps accelerating will get to the same hand speed at impact.

I disagree. I think you either have that fast twitch muscle type or you don't. Swinging the club further aint gonna help, if you dont have the natural hand speed. Look at me for instance. Doesn't matter what swing I put on it, I can't swing much faster than about 110mph. There is no point me trying to be a LD'er, as there is no way I could get the club head speed to a worthwhile level. In fact I can hit it just as far from a stationary 3/4 backswing position as a happy gilmore swing.

[shazza_rs]

BV you are right on the lag.  what I was getting at is if you have high hand speed a compact swing is great. if your hand speed is slower then a longer swing which keeps accelerating will get to the same hand speed at impact.

are you saying that you are slow?

Is that the rotunda of a stomach you have getting in the way.

In all seriousness in answer to your question. Since I'm the one that plays the most golf with you, I can see that the one thing that gets your round going is how good you are hitting your driver.

I have seen you try and be controlled and take the safe play, and seen you in more trouble than i thought possible.

In all reality the mechanics of your long drive swing and the "normal" golf swing aren't that different. You have overswing in every shot. It is just exaggerated in the driver swing cause you are tryingto belt it.

Remember a lot of the long drivers have low handicaps.... I can't think that they go out there with a "normal" golf driver swing.

[peter_rs]

Shazza-> you will keep

OK stephen do you use a LD club on course and a LD swing backed of, or a normal driver with a shorter more compact swing?

Key point BV is that you KEEP ACCELERATING, if you stop accelerating then a longer swing wont help. agree to disagree i guess.

[peter_rs]

For the record this is what I have been modelling my LD swing on.

[BrisVegas]

That person turns their shoulders to about 110 degrees, which is awesome. Looks like he has great extension and arc, but IMHO he's wasting his time going 45 degrees past horizontal at the top.

If you want to do the same for LD and you believe it helps you swing faster, then go nuts!

[Eag's]

Peter_rs_644, saying golf is all about power, not control could not be further from the truth. If that was the case then all the guys averaging over 300yards or more would be cleaning up on tour.

Have a look at the US PGA stats for driving distance, of the top 15 guys only Woods, Daly, Love & Garcia are way up there on the money list. The reason for this is those 4 all have great length but they also have great touch around the greens and are very good with the blade.

In regards to overswinging to gain more clubhead speed just dosen't make sense to me. As Vegas has pointed out, you don't need to be swinging the club that far back to generate power. Players like Appleby & Garcia don't get anywhere near parallel but they both average over 300yards.

They achieve this by delaying the release as late as possible which creates lag as stated above.

The other thing about having 2 different swing types is what it may be doing to your body. The muscles in your lower back must be getting hammered then again you are still young

[Keza_G]

Peter,

My friend.... i feel personally responsible for your LD "Career" as it is to be... I've been doing his for a smidge longer than you and I have been through the highs and the lows of LD....

Before I go on I want to know what your intentions are in LD.... Where do you see yourself in this sport ? What do you want to achieve ? Do you know how do achieve these goals ? What about your golf.... What do you see yourself doing there ?

answer me these and I will continue with my "lecture"

Keza

[Fishman Dan]

Did the guy in that series of photos get caught at Cow Corner?

That's just an agricultural swipe at the ball, not a golf shot. Trying to do that is not going to work with any other club in your bag other than driver.

[peter_rs]

eag's->This is a interesting read I never said it was all about power, I agree wedges, short game/putting are very important but power can make scoring easier.

Keza->

personally responsible for your LD "Career" as it is to be

Not true-> you just gave me some direction

Golf Goal->If I was to be serious (and dream/work hard everyday) the best I think I could get/want is to play the sunshine tour/pro-am tour.  In the last year since I have been working with a coach I have started to hit the ball well but my golf brain is only just starting.  In the last 3 month I have taken the 100 scores out.  I still have blow out holes (quads) which I have to fix if I ever want to go any where in golf, and as my golf brain is getting better the blow outs get less.
Short term goal is to work on my iron swing/short game and putting, If i learn to trust this more then I will get to true 18 hcp soon.  I don't see that I will peak in golf for at least 3 years time, I just have to much to learn.

LD Goal->I haven't been doing it long enough but I want to see how long and repeatable swing I can develop (I don't think I'm a true LD at present because I'm still backing off for controll).  Short term get back to the Nats next year and be in a place to contend.  I figure I have maybe 2 years to do something in open mens LD before I'm to old to match younger stronger kids.
ways to get better->
-Find a LD swing which fits my body- I think I have.
-Find a LD swing coach
-Prac the swing
-gym/ cardo to drop some body weight


Fish-> that is why it is a long drive swing only. I would never try to do it with other clubs

[Keza_G]

Fish -> That swing in the pictures above is my good friend Davyn Nola. In 2003 Davyn Finished 5th at the World LD Titles... He has a swing speed of 140+mph. He recently won the NZ National Title and is currently at the Worlds. He is over 6ft and I wouldn't tell him that to his Face .

Peter -> I feel responsible for your LD aspirations because I gave you a nudge toward ROC....

You cannot do 2 swings...... No one can.... ALD has the same swing for golf that he does for LD, I've seen it... Golf is a game of repetition, a repeatable swing, tht's why we practice, so that we no longer need to think about the swing just about what we want the ball to do and where we want the ball to go. So by trying to learn 2 different swings for 2 different games that are related, you are screwing up your head.

Sub consciously, your body will want to do the swing that has been practiced the most. I changed my swing for LDing in September last year and have not been able to shoot many decent scores, I am in the process of going backward and deconstructing that swing so that i can reach my new goal.....

I have hit about 20 balls this week and am a bi sore but damn.... I have a draw !!!! it's the new swing and the new grip.... Mate, golf is a great game and I would encourage you to practice your short game as much as you practice LDing....

Having said all that, I dunno about Ld coaching.... I'd have a crack at ya but letme see how this month pans out first.... Big Interview tomorrow (Thursday 20th) so I'll let you know after that...

Cheers

Keza