The "Ask a Clubmaker" Thread

[chappy1970]

Don't know the shear strength mate.

You won't have to remove the grips, just make sure that any epoxy in the tip of the shaft is removed with a drill bit so that the air can escape up the shaft if needed

[TheNuclearOne]

I now have another unrelated issue (sorry to annoy you all further). Basically, I installed some .355 taper tip shafts into a .370 parallel tip club-head using a brass shim with Brampton 5&15 epoxy. Previously, I hadn't done any assemblies with brass shims, so I was unsure of best practices and was quite concerned that the epoxy bond would fail and I'd end up injuring someone with a flying club-head. The outcome wasn't quite as dramatic as predicted. I played a round on Saturday, hit the irons really well, none of the club-heads flew off, and I was pleased and relieved. So, assuming everything was OK, I cleaned my clubs today, gave the club-heads a quick twist, and was able to break the epoxy bond on 4/8 (50% failure rate)! Gutted.

I'm starting to wonder where I went wrong. I may have used too much epoxy (I wanted to make sure there was enough to bond the shaft to the shim and the shim to the club-head). I didn't sand the shims (except for 1), as — based on searching various forums — it seemed to be 50/50 as to whether this was a recommended practice. Perhaps the Brampton 5&15 epoxy (even though its shear strength is 3200) isn't suitable for this task and I should have used a 24 hour epoxy (would Araldite Super Strength suffice or would I need to import something from the U.S?). I don't know.

Don't panic. The 5&15 is the most finnicky epoxy you might ever use. You have to go for broke mixing it fast and get the job done pronto. From memory i limited myself to 2 or 3 clubs max at a time. Single is even better, definitely if a shim is involved. Once you've twisted the head on and quickly aigned it you cannot move it whatsoever again. Even wiping the excess you need to make sure you don't twist the head at all.

How many clubs did you do at a time? How long was the epoxy setting for by the time you finished a mix? Did you get the club aligned instantly and then leave?

Get something like the 20/20. 20-30 work life and 20 hour cure. The 5&15 is quite stressful to use LOL

[mrbluu]

Ducky I had a similar experience using 5 min Araldite.
I have never used it since. Only the 24 hr stuff for me.

Never had a problem with the 5 min stuff. But if I'm doing a big job I use the 24hr Araldite.

I've been told not to do more than 3 clubs at a time with the 5 min stuff but even then make sure you have everything set out and work really quickly.

[Steve]

I often use the Brampton 5 min stuff. Never had a problem with it, I only mix for 3 clubs at a time, if it starts to go off, mix some more

[Ducky]

You won't have to remove the grips, just make sure that any epoxy in the tip of the shaft is removed with a drill bit so that the air can escape up the shaft if needed

Isn't the shaft already maximally filled with air though (unless the several layers of masking tape on the butt of the shaft aren't airtight)? Wouldn't the air from the hosel get trapped (or alternatively, push out the epoxy)?

How many clubs did you do at a time? How long was the epoxy setting for by the time you finished a mix? Did you get the club aligned instantly and then leave?

Only 1 per mix, so had to do it 8 times over. The timer was set for 5 minutes once the 2 parts were initially mixed and the club was assembled/cleaned before the timer ended.

In regards to the Araldite, where can I source it for a decent price? $56.50 for 200mL through Bunnings seems a bit costly!

[Captain Nemo]

I only ever use 2 part epoxy from golfworks or the like
http://www.golfworks.com/category.as..._33_A_c2c_E_ln
**** dicking around with araldite and the like.

[TheNuclearOne]

Hmmmmmm, when i say you can't twist the clubhead again at all once you quickly twist it on then quickly align i am talking straight away. Lets say a few seconds to twist the clubhead onto the shaft then instantly align within a couple of seconds - once. No more movement even when wiping excess. This is regardless of the 5 minute period. Would you have been this pedantic?

There's some good deals on Brampton 20/20 for e.g. on U.S. ebay Ducky.

[Ducky]

I only ever use 2 part epoxy from golfworks or the like... **** dicking around with araldite and the like.

I've used the 24 hour epoxy from Hireko (which is relabelled Hardman Epoweld 8200) without issue. I should have gone for the same epoxy, but I thought that the Brampton 5&15 would be more convenient. Once again, I'm unsure if the epoxy was at fault or I was, as this is the first time I've done an assembly with shims.

Lets say a few seconds to twist the clubhead onto the shaft then instantly align within a couple of seconds - once. No more movement even when wiping excess. This is regardless of the 5 minute period. Would you have been this pedantic?

Well, I couldn't really rotate the shaft after inserting it into the club-head (due to the tight fit with the shim), so I was aligning the shaft beforehand. Could I say for sure that it wasn't slightly rotated after insertion? No. The only thing I can say with certainty is that it was placed into the drying position before the 5 minutes had expired.

[TheNuclearOne]

Ok. I've found on the odd occasion even when certain everything has been done to perfection the bond is still weak. I used it a lot over a period of 4 months or so and tho nothing gave way a few pulled waaaaaaay too easily. A couple may have even budged a bit without heat.

[chappy1970]

Isn't the shaft already maximally filled with air though (unless the several layers of masking tape on the butt of the shaft aren't airtight)? Wouldn't the air from the hosel get trapped (or alternatively, push out the epoxy)?
!

Yes it is mate, but you are predominately worried about the case whereby the dried epoxy from the previous install is caked in the tip of the shaft and will cause issues when trying to install the head again .

[liptout]

Well, I couldn't really rotate the shaft after inserting it into the club-head (due to the tight fit with the shim), so I was aligning the shaft beforehand. Could I say for sure that it wasn't slightly rotated after insertion? No. The only thing I can say with certainty is that it was placed into the drying position before the 5 minutes had expired.

That could be half your issue there mate.

If the shaft was in that tight you couldn't twist it then chances are there isn't enough glue holding the sides together. Most of the glue would've gone up the shaft or out the hosel....

[Ducky]

Yes it is mate, but you are predominately worried about the case whereby the dried epoxy from the previous install is caked in the tip of the shaft and will cause issues when trying to install the head again .

OK, cool. Hopefully, I'll have better luck this time around. I'm just debating whether to use the Araldite Super Strength for quick turnaround time or import the Hardman Epoweld 8200 from Hireko.

That could be half your issue there mate.

If the shaft was in that tight you couldn't twist it then chances are there isn't enough glue holding the sides together. Most of the glue would've gone up the shaft or out the hosel...

Yeah, I was worried about this. I know that only a thin coat of epoxy is generally required, but it was a really tight fit with the shaft/shim going into the hosel. I don't know what the solution would be? I've read of people who cut half of the prongs off the shim to increase the surface area of the shaft.

[TheNuclearOne]

I still think 90% of the issue is the particular epoxy.

Try one again with it anyway. Cut half the prongs off the shim, sand the shim, get tip and hosel perfect, twist the head on and leave it alone pronto. Even if you turn the head a little 5 seconds after aligning the bond is weakened with 5&15.

I don't believe you get as good a bond when shimming as when not either, so it's even more important to be spot on. I actually wouldn't buy the 5&15 again personally. I was never impress. It was ok for those now and then glue and hit 2 hours later jobs but i'd never use it consistently.

[Steve]

would shaft beads, be better than the brass shim, or is it to much of a size difference?

[chappy1970]

Steve I think that the size variance might be a little to much for shafting beads.

I use beads routinely and hvae never consider its use as a shim, maybe it would work, you'd need quite bit though I would think

[Steve]

Thanks Chappy, was just a thought.

[Ducky]

I still think 90% of the issue is the particular epoxy.

Yeah, I'm going to get a 24 hour epoxy, not do anything differently, and see what happens.

would shaft beads, be better than the brass shim, or is it to much of a size difference?

I read that using beads instead of a shim resulted in compression failures.

[Mixjah]

Hi guys ive never ventured into this thread before so forgive my ignorance.
But if I bought a set of irons std L/L/L how much would it cost to get the lie changed to 1degree upright?

[Steve]

Send Mr Bluuuuu a PM

[PeteRH]

Hi guys,
I am installing a set of KBS tours stiff (soft stepped) tapers into my irons and find the weight of the 5 (4i ss) iron shaft is 102g. The cut weight of the rest of the shafts are between 109 to 111g. Seems odd to me considering these are supposed to be constant weight. The shaft is definitely stamped as a stiff, correct size and definitely taper tip.
So two questions. Do KBS shafts typically vary this much? Would you guys notice the difference?
Cheers
Pete

[Steve]

It might be a ring in, maybe a tour V shaft, KBS tours ard 120g tour V are 110g uncut

[chappy1970]

Pete it's odd that the weight variance for this shaft is so great, the biggest challenge will be matching the swing weight to that of the remainder of the set

[mrbluu]

Send Mr Bluuuuu a PM

Thanks Steve

Hi guys ive never ventured into this thread before so forgive my ignorance.
But if I bought a set of irons std L/L/L how much would it cost to get the lie changed to 1degree upright?

I can do a set doe u for $30 or $5 a club. Feel free to bring beers .

[PeteRH]

It might be a ring in, maybe a tour V shaft, KBS tours ard 120g tour V are 110g uncut

I hope not. The etchings say the correct shaft and TOUR S but they may have just stamped it wrong. The best outcome will be an underweight Tour shaft.

Pete it's odd that the weight variance for this shaft is so great, the biggest challenge will be matching the swing weight to that of the remainder of the set

I run the weights through that hireko swing weight calculator and thats where I picked it up. It showed another 2g tip weight to bring it up.

I will run it and just see......but I am sure it will play soft just because I know it is a bit lighter. If someone else shafted them up I would probably not have noticed. That is one of the problems with doing your own gear. Wondering or knowing if it is done right.

[Mixjah]

Thanks Steve I can do a set doe u for $30 or $5 a club. Feel free to bring beers .

Ah sweet thanks bluu.I haven't got them yet but will have soonish hopefully.