Houston WE HAVE A PROBLEM!!!!!

[nudgee]

I was just talking to my pro friend on the phone about the Oz Golf Champs and was giving him the low down of my weekend. I told him how I went walkabouts in the middle of the second round before rallying in the last three holes. I told him about the bad luck I had on the 16th hole which went something like this.

Hit 20* hybrid off the tee (yes I know that was ghey) and hit it long and down the middle. I could not reach the green in two so I hit a 6 iron intending to land it in flat area short of the greenside bunkers, however I tugged it a little and it took a bitch of a bounce left into the trees. Fortunately I found the ball and whilst it was against a big tree root, I still had a shot and managed to blast it out. The ball just stopped short of the green side bunker, basically 1 cm from dropping in - a very sandy lie. Unfortunately with my chip I didnt pick the ball up cleanly, fluffed it a bit and it did not make it onto the green - and to add insult to injury it plugged at the face of the bunker about 1 foot from the lip!!! I cracked it and proceeded to throw my wedge at high speed into the bunker (yeah I know, another cranky moment!). The wedge head plugged into the bunker like an axe but was away from the ball. I grabbed the wedge and took a funky stance outside of the bunker and proceeded to play a blast shot that propelled the plugged ball 20 feet into the air and it landed 1 foot from the hole so got away with a bogey. At the time I had joked with the guys that thank god I let go of the wedge before it hit the sand as otherwise it would have been deemed to be a case of testing the bunker conditions.

However to my great horror, my Pro mate INFORMED ME that as the Wedge head was plugged in the sand, the mere action of lifting the wedge should be deemed as testing conditions and should therefore have attracted a 2 shot penalty!!!! ****!!!

I must admit I don't know the rules that well and as I did not get much of a reaction from my group (even when I made the comment about testing sand conditions) as to a potential breach of the rules I thought it was all good. However I don't want to win the Champs if I was wrong in my assessment and should have incurred a two shot penalty.

Is my Pro friend correct in his assessment??? I don't want to add any further drama to this but I cannot accept the Champion tag and Trophy if I was in clear breach of the rules and should have incurred a two stroke penalty.

For the record, I am serious about this.

[AndyP]

Just add it to the list of things that 69er choked on over the closing holes.

[Eag's]

It's done and dusted Nudgee, nothing to concern yourself about.
Move on people, nothing to see here.

[KristianJ]

Thank god for that. Could you imagine having to all go back up there for another presentation??

I can't imagine Mildura Marty would relish another 17 hour odyssey so soon.

[Marto65]

Blue Balls anyone?

[Ferrins]

Fess up if you cheated in the birdie comp virge.

As for Jamie


s my Pro friend correct in his assessment??? I don't want to add any further drama to this but I cannot accept the Champion tag and Trophy if I was in clear breach of the rules and should have incurred a two stroke penalty.


Fair enough, Dickie wins.

[Ferrins]

A thousand apologies.

[Outcast]

Mate, I tips me hat to you for your honesty but, as others have alluded to, no-one picked it up at the time, you did not intentionally cheat and after all we did not play for sheep stations.

I think the result is done and dusted..... Next time take more care with your club throwing so as to avoid the situation completely; to assist you in your endeavours I have included this wonderful instructional video:

.

[markTHEblake]

Is my Pro friend correct in his assessment???

Not sure, and its unusual for a Pro to know the rules

I don't want to add any further drama to this but I cannot accept the Champion tag and Trophy if I was in clear breach of the rules and should have incurred a two stroke penalty.

Rule 34-1. You cant be penalised after the competition has closed and the result announced. There are exceptions to this rule but they do not apply here. Basically you must have consulted with your playing partners and arrived at the decision you all thought was correct at the time.

BTW you are not the only competitor to have made a similar breach of the rules that would have impacted results , but I aint sayin' so dont ask! (by similar I mean thought they acted correctly but didnt, and nobody else in the group considered otherwise)

So suck it in champ, you still da winna!

[Dotty]

The player placed a club in a bunker (albeit with extreme velocity) and discussed with those present whether it constituted testing the condition of the hazard.

So it could be allowable under 13-4 exception 1b.

Keep the sheep station.

[Shadesy]

If I pick up a rake out of the bunker to bring it closer to the ball before my shot , is that illegal? Could that be testing the sand?

[Shadesy]

Is there a difference then if you lift the club out of the bunker? Or was it because it required a bit of force to get the club out therefore could of constituted testing the sand?

[Johnny Canuck]

The player placed a club in a bunker (albeit with extreme velocity) and discussed with those present whether it constituted testing the condition of the hazard.

So it could be allowable under 13-4 exception 1b.

Keep the sheep station.

Exactly.

If I pick up a rake out of the bunker to bring it closer to the ball before my shot , is that illegal? Could that be testing the sand?

No. You can even throw it.

Just don't be a dumbass and rake your footprints before you play...

I believe it is if you rake with it. I was told that once as I raked the footprints en route to my ball in the bunker.

... like he did.

Is there a difference then if you lift the club out of the bunker? Or was it because it required a bit of force to get the club out therefore could of constituted testing the sand?

That's what they are arguing, but it is not covered explicitly in the rules. You could safely argue that Nudgee wasn't testing the sand.

[solarman]

I think that the wedge in question should somehow become a trophy for future events e.g. sportsmanship award.
Mounted on one of those boards someone is advertising their father does.

[LarryLong]

Maybe we need to inaugurate the 'Golden Helicopter' award in honor of this event?

Sounds to me like Nudgee deserves the win and gets bonus points for coming clean.

Hypothetical: Assuming it is a two-stroke penalty to pick up the wedge after throwing it into the face of the bunker, what would you do if it interfered with your intended stance or swing? Would you have to leave it there, grab another club and try to hack it out without snapping your wedge? What if you moved the club in the act of taking your stance?

[Johnny Canuck]

Maybe we need to inaugurate the 'Golden Helicopter' award in honor of this event?
Sounds to me like Nudgee deserves the win and gets bonus points for coming clean.
Hypothetical: Assuming it is a two-stroke penalty to pick up the wedge after throwing it into the face of the bunker, what would you do if it interfered with your intended stance or swing? Would you have to leave it there, grab another club and try to hack it out without snapping your wedge? What if you moved the club in the act of taking your stance?

You can also argue that it is a moveable obstruction, which gives you free relief. I saw that in a ruling somewhere.

[just]

I have constant hope for a ruling that gives me free daily relief from a movable obstruction.

[Ferrins]

I'll buy the wedge for $20 and you can back date the sale to just after you slammed it into the bunker, so then the wedge was mine and you were removing a removable obstruction.

[virge666]

Hypothetical: Assuming it is a two-stroke penalty to pick up the wedge after throwing it into the face of the bunker, what would you do if it interfered with your intended stance or swing? Would you have to leave it there, grab another club and try to hack it out without snapping your wedge? What if you moved the club in the act of taking your stance?

Bit lost on this gents...

Played shot and flubbed it into the bunker...
Threw Tanty and chucked wedge into said bunker . . .

Is this not a two shot penalty for ground a club in a hazard ? Forget removing it, the fact that it is in the bunker in the first place is the problem.

Am I missing something ?


(and it is done and dusted... Nudgee still wins, has to be brought up before award handed out.)

[Johnny Canuck]

Not a grounded club if you are not holding it.

[virge666]

Not a grounded club if you are not holding it.

Not on my watch . . .

If I walk into a hazard with 3 clubs, then drop 2 of them next to me in the hazard, it is regarded as grounding your club.

I only know this due to my 2007 pennant semifinal at the Australian golf club.

[Johnny Canuck]

Not on my watch . . .
If I walk into a hazard with 3 clubs, then drop 2 of them next to me in the hazard, it is regarded as grounding your club.
I only know this due to my 2007 pennant semifinal at the Australian golf club.

The rules state that you can place clubs in bunkers. The decisions book states that you can throw a rake into a bunker.

There is nothing that defines throwing a club into a bunker or the difference between placing and throwing.

Sounds like you got burned when you should not have.

[rubin]

I think that a lot of it comes down to you, and your playing partners, interpretation of the ruling and the intent of the player. This is not a rule that is clear cut, but JC is right. There is nothing that specifically defines the throwing of a club into a bunker, the removal of a club, or the difference between placing and throwing.

[virge666]

I think that a lot of it comes down to you, and your playing partners, interpretation of the ruling and the intent of the player. This is not a rule that is clear cut, but JC is right. There is nothing that specifically defines the throwing of a club into a bunker, the removal of a club, or the difference between placing and throwing.

So by your definition... I can stand there in the bunker and test the sand by throwing clubs at the sand to see how deep it is and how hard packed it is ?

Let me try that this weekend in front of the match committee. I can't wait to see their faces !

[CobraSS]

So by your definition... I can stand there in the bunker and test the sand by throwing clubs at the sand to see how deep it is and how hard packed it is ?

The rules state that it depends on your "Intention" so if you are deliberately throwing clubs into the bunker to test the sand as stated above, then you are subject to a penalty, however if in the act of throwing your club into the sand, it was not your intention to test the sand coditions, then you are not subject to a penalty, under that rule.

[Johnny Canuck]

In your example you are intending to test. At least you would deserve it this time.

There is nothing in the rules that states if you drop a club it is a penalty, unless you are intending to test.

What is the difference between throwing a rake into a bunker or a club? Surely they could tell you the same thing if you intended to test.