One for the rules gurus.

[Steve57]

That was the only explanation I could come up with. The problem is, from the footage I saw and replayed, it appeared to bounce backwards.

It was then too close to the stand to get a free swing.

[Slothman]

Ok Got given this hypothetical on another forum and I think I have confused myself massively. Hopefully someone can answer this.

Player A and B are in a match play game. Both drive. Both come to rest in similair locations on the left. Both Player A and B think Player A is in the red lateral hazard. Player B is somewhere in the deep rough near the hazard.

Player A and his partner are trying to determine the point of entry into the hazard.

Player B and his partner are looking for his ball.

Player A drops, and hits up the fairway. Player B cannot locate his ball.

Player A asks what ball Player B was hitting and realises he may have picked his ball up in the rough a distance away from where Player B was looking. He put it in his pocket and then realises he has used Player's B ball as his ball he has dropped and hit up.

Know what? Does Player A lose the hole? Player B would substitue his ball and play from as near as possible, but because it was "under search" what goes on. My gut tells me Player A loses the hole, but I can't prove why and because of that I am at a loss here.

[Dotty]

By reading Rule 18-3, as Player A was not searching for Player B's ball, then clause b. takes effect and Player A incurs a one stroke penalty.

Player B must replace the moved ball.

[Slothman]

By reading Rule 18-3, as Player A was not searching for Player B's ball, then clause b. takes effect and Player A incurs a one stroke penalty.

Player B must replace the moved ball.

Awesome, now if Player A was searching for Player B's ball, what would happen? Specifically in relation to the fact that Player A ended up hitting essentially Player B's ball??

[Grumpy8]

Why would player a be penalised? Did player b put specific markings on his ball? Did player a know those markings ?
It could have been coincidence that he found a ball with same brand same no , as you say it wasn’t where they thought b’s ball was .

[Dotty]

Awesome, now if Player A was searching for Player B's ball, what would happen? Specifically in relation to the fact that Player A ended up hitting essentially Player B's ball??

Interesting.

I'd say that he found what he was searching for. No penalty for moving a ball in the search, and it should be replaced.

But ... He would now know it was his opponent's ball, and playing a stroke at the wrong ball would then be loss of hole. (Rule 15-3).

[Dotty]

Why would player a be penalised? Did player b put specific markings on his ball? Did player a know those markings ?
It could have been coincidence that he found a ball with same brand same no , as you say it wasn’t where they thought b’s ball was .

There was some ambiguity in the original description ... 'he may have picked his ball up'
and later .. 'he has used Player's B ball as his ball'.

[Grumpy8]

There is no penalty to the opponent if he moves b’s during a search . Did he play the wrong ball , b’s ball is lost and a’s ball is also lost and has been substituted possibly with b’s original ball. has a played out of turn ?

[Dotty]

It's a hypothetical and not worth the debate, especially with ambiguous terms like 'Both come to rest in similair locations on the left.'. It also conveniently leaves out whether Player A knew what brand, number, etc. ball, was being used by Player B.

Basically, Player A has picked up a ball in an area where they believed Player B's drive was heading, and didn't think to ask whether it belongs to Player B.

Loss of hole for being stupid.

[3Puttpete]

Loss of hole for being stupid.

There’s not much point me ever teeing it up if that’s the rule.

[Grumpy8]

There’s not much point me ever teeing it up if that’s the rule.

Me also

[Slothman]

It's a hypothetical and not worth the debate, especially with ambiguous terms like 'Both come to rest in similair locations on the left.'. It also conveniently leaves out whether Player A knew what brand, number, etc. ball, was being used by Player B.

Basically, Player A has picked up a ball in an area where they believed Player B's drive was heading, and didn't think to ask whether it belongs to Player B.

Loss of hole for being stupid.

I am glad this was how you saw it, exactly how I saw it.

It poses more questions like you mentioned. I too was like "Wait a minute, Player A is a dick if he used a ball that was marked etc." Thanks for the answers.

[Dotty]

I'm also amazed that someone playing matchplay would be totally oblivious to the brand and number of an opponent's ball.

[Johnny Canuck]

I am glad this was how you saw it, exactly how I saw it.

It poses more questions like you mentioned. I too was like "Wait a minute, Player A is a dick if he used a ball that was marked etc." Thanks for the answers.

That's the way I see it as well.

[Slothman]

I'm also amazed that someone playing matchplay would be totally oblivious to the brand and number of an opponent's ball.

Yeh that is what I was getting out without accusing someone of being a cheating dick.

This was posed on another forum and I turned it into Hypothetical because there was a lot of "that doesn't sound right" but the premise behind the original question was interesting.

[3Puttpete]

Is there any issue taking stroke and distance if the spot is 30m closer to the hole than where the ball crossed the margin of the penalty area?

[Daves]

Is there any issue taking stroke and distance if the spot is 30m closer to the hole than where the ball crossed the margin of the penalty area?

It has always been my understanding that Stroke and Distance (i.e. replay the original shot) is always an option, irrespective of fate of the original shot.

https://www.randa.org/en/rog/2019/ru...f-golf/rule-18

[PeteyD]

Yep, you can always take stroke and distance and replay the shot.

[JADO75]

Is stroke & distance a local rule?

[Daves]

Is stroke & distance a local rule?

No. I think you might be confusing it with the new optional Local Rule that would allow an Irish Drop on the Fairway.

[Steve57]

Is there any issue taking stroke and distance if the spot is 30m closer to the hole than where the ball crossed the margin of the penalty area?

Stroke and distance is only an option if it is played from the original spot.
30 metres in front of where the original shot crossed a hazard is definitely NOT an option.

[3Puttpete]

Stroke and distance is only an option if it is played from the original spot.
30 metres in front of where the original shot crossed a hazard is definitely NOT an option.

What if it crossed the hazard 30m behind the original spot.

Let’s just pretend for a minute the ball was played a metre from a garden bed which was surrounded by rocks and rather than hitting over the garden bed the shot was bladed into the rocks and went 80m in the opposite direction.



In this example the green arrow is the intended line of travel.

[Steve57]

What if it crossed the hazard 30m behind the original spot.

Let’s just pretend for a minute the ball was played a metre from a garden bed which was surrounded by rocks and rather than hitting over the garden bed the shot was blades into the rocks and went 80m in the opposite direction.



In this example the green arrow is the intended line of travel.

Then that is allowable.
It’s funny I thought of that scenario when I was replying but thought nah, too hard to explain!
You or the big fella?

[3Puttpete]

Then that is allowable.
It’s funny I thought of that scenario when I was replying but thought nah, too hard to explain!
You or the big fella?

Who did it is not is not important.

[Steve57]

Who did it is not is not important.

No need for further explanation!
Monthly medal I assume?