One for the rules gurus.

[markTHEblake]

Is the decisions book available in an online version?

yes, and it took me ages to find it in the new layout
you just look up a particular Rule, and the decisions are in the same panel.

[mike]

Here's one regarding my home course that has always confused me.

Hole #5. The grey line is the desired path. The yellow line represents a mesh fence that acts as protection for players on the 4th tee and 3rd green.



Let's say you **** up your tee shot and end up against the mesh fence. The path you would take from there is to bunt it out on a line parallel to the fence to get back in play.
However, if I were to go directly at the green the fence would impede my swing. So technically I get a free drop away from the fence. Correct or not.

[mike]

You don't have to mark it, but he can't ask you to leave it there either.

What about in a 4BBB. Can you ask your partner to replace his ball?

[markTHEblake]

However, if I were to go directly at the green the fence would impede my swing. So technically I get a free drop away from the fence. Correct or not.

Depends, is it reasonable for you to go directly at the green or not?

Rule 24-2, Exception.

In any case it is unlikely that such a drop is going to get the player a shot at the green anyway, as he would still have to hit over it.

[mike]

Depends, is it reasonable for you to go directly at the green or not?

No. The fence is ten foot high. But dropping away may get you a better angle at getting back on the fairway.

Last year sometime I saw someone in the group ahead take a drop on the GREEN SIDE of the fence. (I was waiting on the 4th tee) I asked if he can do that and he said he could drop on that side providing he was no closer to the green. How does that one sound?

[markTHEblake]

No. The fence is ten foot high. But dropping away may get you a better angle at getting back on the fairway.

It depends on whether the shot he intended to play which is being obstructed, was reasonable. By virtue of the fact that he claims he wanted a drop because he wished to aim at the green, and then does not aim at the green after taking relief, would be enough to prove his intentions were not reasonable.

How does that one sound?

if that was his nearest point of relief not nearer the hole, then fine.

[mike]

It depends on whether the shot he intended to play which is being obstructed, was reasonable. By virtue of the fact that he claims he wanted a drop because he wished to aim at the green, and then does not aim at the green after taking relief, would be enough to prove his intentions were not reasonable.

Fair enough but wasn't Ian Poulter involved in something like this last year. Had no intention of doing something or other but took relief anyway? I'll look it up.

if that was his nearest point of relief not nearer the hole, then fine.

Nearest point of relief was not on the green side of the fence.

[mike]

I'll look it up.

Cancel that. I was thinking of something else.

[Sasquatch]

If a bunker is GUR what is the reference point for the drop? Point of entry, balls finishing position or the whole bunker itself?

PM15th.JPG

[Minor_Threat]

If a bunker is GUR what is the reference point for the drop? Point of entry, balls finishing position or the whole bunker itself?

Attachment 10975

The reference point is the nearest point of relief to where your ball lay, no closer to the hole.

[Sasquatch]

Thanks MT.

[markTHEblake]

Fair enough but wasn't Ian Poulter involved in something like this last year. Had no intention of doing something or other but took relief anyway? I'll look it up.

The best example I can give you is this;
My ball us up a tree, and I cant take a normal stance at all, so i elect to chip it out lefthanded. In the left handed stance, a protective screen interferes with my backswing.

As my intention to play a left handed shot is a reasonable one, I am entitled to relief from the screen. Now that I have taken my drop, there is no obligation for me to play my shot left handed anymore.

A point worth noting is that the nearest point of releif from the ball washer my well be further into the tree than my ball originally was, but then i have 1 clublength from that point to drop it, plus roll. Many golfers seem to think that nearest point of relief from an obstruction excludes any other kind of obstruction - definitely not.

[markTHEblake]

Nearest point of relief was not on the green side of the fence.

As long as he dropped within 1 club length of the nearest point of releif and it rolled less then 2 club lengths and provided complete relief from the obstruction then its ok. If not then he has breached.

A clever golfer could easily manufacture a way to get on the other side of the fence, even I managed to do it once

[mike]

Wow MTB you know a lot about rules.

What happens if my ball is vapourized by an alien spacecraft half way through my downswing? Air swing?

[markTHEblake]

Wow MTB you know a lot about rules.

plenty i dont know, i have been caught out about 3 times this year.

What happens if my ball is vapourized by an alien spacecraft half way through my downswing? Air swing?

Rule 18.1 "it is a question of fact whether a ball has been moved by an outside agency"

Therefore:
If Aliens exist, then you can replace with another ball without penalty, and the stroke did not count (see definitions of a stroke, you cant attempt to hit a ball that does not exist).

If Aliens do not exist, That would be a Lost ball (Rule 18-1 'Note',), no stroke (see definition of a stroke), and then you take a stroke and distance penalty and return to where you played the previous shot from. But if i was your playing partner I would be telephoning the rubber bus as soon as possible.

[mike]

Thanks for that.

[Daves]

So theoretically, I have flown the green on the last hole and ended up in the trees in a pile of shit covered by a Cardno towel. It is obvious someone ( to remain at this stage unnamed) has already taken relief on this spot!, am I allowed relief also?

Should we have posted signs on the spot for the next poor bastard that ends up there?

In matchplay are you allowed to "take relief" before finishing the match? or do you have to hold it in?

Are turtleheads outside agencies?

Is continually have to take relief like this at various courses, a sign of other problems? How many Cardno towels can you have left?

[MegaWatty]

ROFL!

[markTHEblake]

So theoretically, I have flown the green on the last hole and ended up in the trees in a pile of shit covered by a Cardno towel. It is obvious someone ( to remain at this stage unnamed) has already taken relief on this spot!, am I allowed relief also?

The towel is a movable obstruction, the poo i think no. The rules only define animal poo as a an abnormal ground condition.

In matchplay are you allowed to "take relief" before finishing the match? or do you have to hold it in?

read the rule " 6.8(iv)

Is continually have to take relief like this at various courses, a sign of other problems? How many Cardno towels can you have left?

i once had to shit after the 1st and 3rd holes, and was close to walking off after 4 cos i had run out of towels. I take plenty of towels these days

[Ned]

Mobile Phone GPS Devices ?

Whats your interpretation of the R and A Ruling ?

[rubin]

Mobile Phone GPS Devices ?

Whats your interpretation of the R and A Ruling ?

I may be incorrect, but in terms of general usage, as long as it shows distance only (and not wind conditions, due points etc.) they are allowed.

Having said that, i've seen some courses in WA saying that GPS devices of any kind are not allowed during competition rounds (local rulings)

[markTHEblake]

Mobile Phone GPS Devices ?

Allowed

Whats your interpretation of the R and A Ruling ?

Allowed.

[markTHEblake]

Having said that, i've seen some courses in WA saying that GPS devices of any kind are not allowed during competition rounds.

What a bunch of wankers. Thats like saying 'kicking your ball" is not allowed during competition rounds.

[razaar]

The Rules of Golf permit Committess to make a local rule allowing players to use devicesthat measure or guage distance only. Any other function such as wind speed, gradient, temperature etc is not permitted under the Rules. If there is no local rule then the measuring device is not permitted.

[Ned]

Ok,

Played an event last year where mobiles were permitted as long as it was comfirmed that the sim card removed and held by the official or the phone was inoperable.

Ive got an old HTC phone that still works fine as GPS but wont work as a phone. (Bounced it on the concrete too many times)