One for the rules gurus.

[Johnny Canuck]

What do you do if you don't if it's lost or in the hazard?

I am going to look that up.

I believe if not virtually certain, you treat as lost.

The group can still conclude that they believe it went in the water after the fact.

[markTHEblake]

Makes me wonder though what would happen if you were playing with d*ckheads who insisted your ball was virtually certain to be in the hazard. Who has the last say about "virtually certain" ? I am talking about stroke play here.

The d*heads you are playing with have absolutely no say at all. They can protest all they like at the time, but it makes no difference because none of them are a referee. If they want to disagree with the player they will need to report it to the match committee.

[bergsey]

What do you do if you don't if it's lost or in the hazard?

It has to be in the hazard or virtually certain to be in the hazard to proceed under that rule, otherwise it is lost.

[bergsey]

27-2a/2.5
Player Plays Provisional Ball in Belief Original Might Be Lost Outside Water Hazard Then Discovers There Is No Possibility of Its Being Lost Outside Water Hazard

Q.A player's tee shot is struck towards an area of trees, bushes and tall grass. Believing his ball might be lost outside a water hazard, the player announces his intention to play a provisional ball and plays a ball from the tee. When he arrives at the area, he finds that the area in question is wetlands that has been defined as a lateral water hazard and that it is known or virtually certain that his ball is in it. What is the ruling?

A.As the player played the second ball from the tee in the belief that his original ball might be lost outside a water hazard, that ball was a provisional ball. The subsequent discovery that the area in question is in fact a lateral water hazard is irrelevant. Therefore, the player must abandon the provisional ball and proceed under Rule 26-1 – see Rule 27-2c.

[highballin]

No onus. He can call it lost, but if it is found within the 5 min and before another shot is played from a point past where the ball was believed to be lost, it must be played.

In situation the was referenced earlier, if it was unsure if the ball was in the hazard or lost, you couldn't simply call it a lost ball and play the provisional if there was a chance that it is in the hazard. A ball in the hazard cannot be treated as a lost ball.

I hope that makes sense.

Yep that makes sense.
But if the player is the one who has to be virtually certain ball was in hazard and he is not. Then wouldn't he be within his rights to walk to the prov ball and say tap it in if it was next to pin before anyone had a chance to look for original ball ?

[Dotty]

Yep that makes sense.
But if the player is the one who has to be virtually certain ball was in hazard and he is not. Then wouldn't he be within his rights to walk to the prov ball and say tap it in if it was next to pin before anyone had a chance to look for original ball ?

Yes, and we have this situation at our club, where 1, 9, 10 and 18 go over a gully/creek with markings for a lateral water hazard. (In matchplay, it was common for the opponent to have an eagle-eye, whilst crossing the high bridges.)

We now use the specimen local rule (Appendix 1, Part B (page 123 of the RoG handbook) on these four holes.

[Waddzy]

Curious on a ruling.. We have a par 4 which is reachable by hitting over a bunch of trees after first crossing water to make a shortcut, at these trees there is a blue stake put up , anything left of this means red hazard( re tee is the only real option) anything right is part of the drop zone placed over the water at the start of the tree's ( which is also the ladies tee). What is the ruling if the blue stake is hit and the ball finishes to the left ( red hazard ). I would assume that the ball has finished in red hazard and play it accordingly. But the guy playing with me at the time insisted because he had hit the marker he can claim he would of finished in the drop zone area of play. This was quite awhile ago and I cant remember all the details but the same thing happened again 2 weeks ago and it was played the way I originally thought so curious to see who was right. Like I said more than certain that you play where it ended but is there a rule in place for hitting markers.

[Dotty]

Curious on a ruling.. We have a par 4 which is reachable by hitting over a bunch of trees after first crossing water to make a shortcut, at these trees there is a blue stake put up , anything left of this means red hazard( re tee is the only real option) anything right is part of the drop zone placed over the water at the start of the tree's ( which is also the ladies tee). What is the ruling if the blue stake is hit and the ball finishes to the left ( red hazard ). I would assume that the ball has finished in red hazard and play it accordingly. But the guy playing with me at the time insisted because he had hit the marker he can claim he would of finished in the drop zone area of play. This was quite awhile ago and I cant remember all the details but the same thing happened again 2 weeks ago and it was played the way I originally thought so curious to see who was right. Like I said more than certain that you play where it ended but is there a rule in place for hitting markers.

Tell him to read the Definition section of the RoG.

Stakes defining a water hazards are in the water hazard.

[Daves]

Curious on a ruling.. We have a par 4 which is reachable by hitting over a bunch of trees after first crossing water to make a shortcut, at these trees there is a blue stake put up , anything left of this means red hazard( re tee is the only real option) anything right is part of the drop zone placed over the water at the start of the tree's ( which is also the ladies tee). What is the ruling if the blue stake is hit and the ball finishes to the left ( red hazard ). I would assume that the ball has finished in red hazard and play it accordingly. But the guy playing with me at the time insisted because he had hit the marker he can claim he would of finished in the drop zone area of play. This was quite awhile ago and I cant remember all the details but the same thing happened again 2 weeks ago and it was played the way I originally thought so curious to see who was right. Like I said more than certain that you play where it ended but is there a rule in place for hitting markers.

It only matters were the ball finishes, not where it traveled to get there. The only exception would be if there was a local rule specific to hitting the marker (unlikely), as there sometimes is for powerlines and the like.

[Waddzy]

It only matters were the ball finishes, not where it traveled to get there. The only exception would be if there was a local rule specific to hitting the marker (unlikely), as there sometimes is for powerlines and the like.

No worries I thought the same , I might check if there is a local rule but like you said highly unlikely. Powerline ruling would be interesting to see

[Dotty]

No worries I thought the same , I might check if there is a local rule but like you said highly unlikely. Powerline ruling would be interesting to see

I started playing on the south coast, when Moruya golf course was partially in the middle of the horse racing track.

I think, if a ball hit the running rail, then it was compulsory re-hit (no penalty).

[Lagerlover]

I started playing on the south coast, when Moruya golf course was partially in the middle of the horse racing track.

19th hole Dotty?...

image.jpg

[Daves]

No worries I thought the same , I might check if there is a local rule but like you said highly unlikely. Powerline ruling would be interesting to see

The Powerline local rule is quite common. Off the top of the head, Nudgee, Mt Warren Park and Wantima have it, and I sure there are plenty of others (Helensvale included I suspect). Usually requires a compulsory reload.

[highballin]

I played at The Dunes Port Hughes at Xmas beautiful 9 hole (that's another story) course.

Blow me down there is a stoby pole (sa telegraph pole) in front midde
of tee about 40m. Reload if you hit. I aim for it thinking no chance if I aim at it.missed it by a bees d*ck.

[LeftyHoges]

We can cover most bases in this district. My home club has the powerline rule off the first tee (compulsory re-play), Penshurst has the course built inside a racetrack so anything hitting the running rails, jumps etc is compulsory re-play, and Merino has fences around the greens to keep the sheep off them, so anything hitting those fences is also compulsory re-play.

Good ol' Country golf!

[Bruce]

My first (and only) game at Riverlakes started like that with a shotgun start we were off 17 or something. My tee shot hit the powerlines and kicked sideways into the piss. Sure I play again - but do I get a ball credit?

[aussieashley]

Curious on a ruling.. We have a par 4 which is reachable by hitting over a bunch of trees after first crossing water to make a shortcut, at these trees there is a blue stake put up , anything left of this means red hazard( re tee is the only real option) anything right is part of the drop zone placed over the water at the start of the tree's ( which is also the ladies tee). What is the ruling if the blue stake is hit and the ball finishes to the left ( red hazard ). I would assume that the ball has finished in red hazard and play it accordingly. But the guy playing with me at the time insisted because he had hit the marker he can claim he would of finished in the drop zone area of play. This was quite awhile ago and I cant remember all the details but the same thing happened again 2 weeks ago and it was played the way I originally thought so curious to see who was right. Like I said more than certain that you play where it ended but is there a rule in place for hitting markers.

This is on 14 isn't it?
That whole hazard area is confusingly marked to me. I was actually under the impression that anything left of the blue stake was drop zone and anything right was red hazard??
If you're right of the blue stake and you've hit it well you'll generally be safe anyway.
I usually spray it way right anyway.

[markTHEblake]

As the stake is in the hazard it means the ball was in the hazard before it hit the stake.

Carry on.

[damoocow]

A par 4 has a water hazard [a long narrow rock garden used for run off water ]near the front of the green. It is only marked with yellow paint on the ground around the hazard. Continual rain has washed away the line marking so that none of it can be seen. Local rules give players a card length preferred lie. Players ball is just in 'hazard' and takes preferred lie in line with local rules - this relief takes him from the rocks onto the fairway behind. Thoughts?

[Courty]

As I understand, you can't take preferred lies in a hazard. Period.

[damoocow]

As I understand, you can't take preferred lies in a hazard. Period.

I understand that but was interested if a hazard is only defined by lines and/or stakes - if there are none and there is no water is it a water hazard?

[aussieashley]

I understand that but was interested if a hazard is only defined by lines and/or stakes - if there are none and there is no water is it a water hazard?

Even if there is no water it is still a hazard. I'm pretty sure it's the committee's responsibility to accurately mark the hazards, but I'm not sure what happens if they don't (or if the did but the weather washed away the markings).

[aussieashley]

Water hazard definition:
A"water hazard" is any sea, lake, pond, river, ditch, surface drainage ditch or other open water course (whether or not containing water) and anything of a similar nature on the course. All ground and water within the margin of a water hazard are part of the water hazard.

[markTHEblake]

Damo, the natural margin of the water hazard is the margin. If that makes sense. It doesn't need to have water in it. In the opposite situation, if the water hazard overflows, the hazard does not become bigger, the overflow is casual water.

[damoocow]

Thanks Gents - wasn't my ball but good to know that water hazards don't need to be marked.