One for the rules gurus.

[markTHEblake]

He then said he was comfortable with where it was replaced and let the game continue.. myself being unhappy with that decided to scratch the hole as it seemed appropriate however not really my fault. WHAT is the ruling here???

Why would it seem appropriate when you didnt do anything wrong? Think about this for a moment.... If you really were penalised, then a dishonest golfer would never get beaten, he could just accidentally pick up the other guys marker whenever it suited him. So it would not really make any sense for you to be penalised at all.

The thing you really should have done is play out the hole as your group suggested and asked for a ruling later.

FYI, even if you accidentally pick up your own marker its only a 1 stroke penalty.

and last important point, this situation is in the rule book. No real need for wondering

[Bruce]

The phrase you are looking for is "outside agency".

[oncewasagolfer]

One of my playing partners today was against a tree with a big stick against the ball. He moves the stick then 40 seconds or so later the ball rolls a foot or so and I said that would be a penalty but got talked down but everyone including his marker. If he caused the ball to move which I think he did even though his marker said it was wind shouldn't he be penalised 2 shots for not replacing it?

[Steve]

I cant say what moved the ball, I wasn't there, however it is a two shot pen for not replacing it.

[oncewasagolfer]

I told him to get a ruling before he signed his card he didn't and subsequently won the day. He said it didn't move within 10 seconds so thats alright.

[Daves]

One of my playing partners today was against a tree with a big stick against the ball. He moves the stick then 40 seconds or so later the ball rolls a foot or so and I said that would be a penalty but got talked down but everyone including his marker. If he caused the ball to move which I think he did even though his marker said it was wind shouldn't he be penalised 2 shots for not replacing it?

40 seconds is too long, imo, for the movement to be attributed to the removal of loose impediments. If it is agreed that the wind moved the ball, then it is played as it lies.

[Steve]

You need to have the Rule book app on ya phone, shuts them all up. 20 seconds to search and have a ruling.

[oncewasagolfer]

40 seconds is too long, imo, for the movement to be attributed to the removal of loose impediments. If it is agreed that the wind moved the ball, then it is played as it lies.

ok cool I just didn't know there was a time limit.

[Daves]

Relevant Decision here;

18-2a/7 Ball Moved by Wind Replaced

Q. In stroke play, a competitor's ball was moved by wind. Since wind is not an outside agency (see Definition of “Outside Agency”), he should have played it from where it came to rest, but he replaced it. What is the ruling?


A. The competitor incurred one penalty stroke under Rule 18-2a, and, before playing his next stroke, he should have replaced the ball on the spot where it came to rest after being moved by the wind. If he did not do so, he incurred a total penalty of two strokes – see penalty statement under Rule 18.

[Daves]

ok cool I just didn't know there was a time limit.

There is no limit per se, but 40 seconds is a long time later. Within 10 seconds and I would be agreeing, and then it would have had to have been replaced.

[hacker]

You need to have the Rule book app on ya phone, shuts them all up. 20 seconds to search and have a ruling.

I know it s dangerous to have only part information but I'll go ahead anyway.

I'm newish to golf and thinking about comps. I was under the impression you can't use your phone on course as you could get illegal information.

[mike]

I was under the impression you can't use your phone on course as you could get illegal information.

Big can of worms.

My favourite subject.

[3Puttpete]

I know it s dangerous to have only part information but I'll go ahead anyway.

I'm newish to golf and thinking about comps. I was under the impression you can't use your phone on course as you could get illegal information.

That's all the Mrs needs to know. Move on

[markTHEblake]

I said that would be a penalty but got talked down but everyone including his marker. If he caused the ball to move which I think he did even though his marker said it was wind shouldn't he be penalised 2 shots for not replacing it?

Neither the player, nor the marker nor anyone else in that group is a referee. Whatever they have said is not binding.

I told him to get a ruling before he signed his card he didn't and subsequently won the day. He said it didn't move within 10 seconds so thats alright.

You should have reported the incident to the match committee not Ozgolf! None of use were there, so we cant rule on this for you, sorry.

I have discussed this rule with a state official, about a similar hypothetical situation. Based on that scenario I believe he would have ruled against the player, because to blame the wind there would have to be significant evidence, like a massive gust at that instant.

I was under the impression you can't use your phone on course as you could get illegal information.

Like what, making bombs?

[oncewasagolfer]

[QUOTE=markTHEblake;1031570]Neither the player, nor the marker nor anyone else in that group is a referee. Whatever they have said is not binding.



You should have reported the incident to the match committee not Ozgolf!

I wasn't reporting it to ozgolf just wanted to know if my interpretation of the rule was correct. I thought the player would have spoken to someone before signing his card but he was more interested in drinking.

[BenM]

[QUOTE=oncewasagolfer;1031583]

Neither the player, nor the marker nor anyone else in that group is a referee. Whatever they have said is not binding.



You should have reported the incident to the match committee not Ozgolf!

I wasn't reporting it to ozgolf just wanted to know if my interpretation of the rule was correct. I thought the player would have spoken to someone before signing his card but he was more interested in drinking.

One of the issues with club golf is that it's a hassle to do that sometimes, for example if I wanted to find a member of the match committee today after my round I would've been struggling. One or two of them might've been out on the course but no idea where.

Similar situation to you today, was stone dead behind a tree on some loose twigs, I stepped up to get ready to play my shot (hadn't addressed it yet) and fricking thing rolled about a ball's width off the twig it was on. It was a windy day today but I honestly couldn't see the wind causing it to move like that, I can only assume that the vibration of my footsteps (or my moving the loose surface) caused a chain reaction that caused the ball to move.

Called a one shot penalty on myself, put it back and played it. Nobody else saw it. Shithouse but what else do you do.

[TheNuclearOne]

Good debate today.

I hit near the OB, we thought it in but i hit again in case. Pumped it up the light rough just left of FW. Another guy went OB, then hit one up around mine, a little left of it. I hit my initial ball forward, it was on the right side. I walked across and told the other guy throw over my titleist if you see it. He threw the ball/titleist on the left over. I said that's not mine. He asked me to look at the one he was about to hit. It was mine. In his rage he had no idea what ball he had hit on his provisional but knew he had a titleist in there LOL. It was the one he picked up.

He then told me he was DQ as he had picked up in stroke. You could not tell him other, but i talked him into dropping and playing on with penalty. A few holes later he was still in a bunker after 4 efforts and NCR'd. The club went about 20 meters and the ball an impressive 40 or so, going OB across a fairway behind him. He's a good bloke but expects to pure every single shot off a 23 odd handicap. Sometimes i wonder why he plays, all the intense stress and anger golf causes him. Christ he gets worked up.

[hacker]

like what, making bombs?

The guy behind the counter in the pro shop said mobiles can get wind and weather, so they can't be used. I was just wanting to clarify as I figured having a rule book on your phone wouldn't be much help if you can't legally access during a comp round.

[BenM]

I was always under the impression that accessing weather reports on your phone is fine, as they are a) public information and b) only accessing a report of the conditions in your local area, ie they don't actually measure weather conditions in your exact location.... Seems maybe I was mistaken from a quick google?

[Sydney Hacker]

The guy behind the counter in the pro shop said mobiles can get wind and weather, so they can't be used. I was just wanting to clarify as I figured having a rule book on your phone wouldn't be much help if you can't legally access during a comp round.

I believe he was being pedantic about your use of the word "illegal" as opposed to against the rules, but I could be wrong.

[Steve]

If you used it for that it possibly be a breach of the rules, but most clubs brought the no phone rules in, when phone just made calls. So ya didn't get ya ma ring when your playing partner was half way through his shot.

[Waddzy]

I am curious on a decision made by a junior a couple of weekends ago. We currently have a drainage pipe fenced off with the orange hazard fencing. this runs all the way into a Red staked hazard ( pond). One of the juniors hit a terrible shot.. happened to get in the way of the orange fencing and rested half on it. Junior says he gets a free drop, other player ( his marker ) says as it runs into the hazard its now part of the hazard. Who is correct? I hope that makes sense.

[Daves]

I am curious on a decision made by a junior a couple of weekends ago. We currently have a drainage pipe fenced off with the orange hazard fencing. this runs all the way into a Red staked hazard ( pond). One of the juniors hit a terrible shot.. happened to get in the way of the orange fencing and rested half on it. Junior says he gets a free drop, other player ( his marker ) says as it runs into the hazard its now part of the hazard. Who is correct? I hope that makes sense.

I would presume by the way it has been marked, it is GUR, and hence a free drop. Or possibly an immovable obstruction (the fencing), also a free drop. You would need to check with the Committee. I can't understand the logic of "its now part of a the hazard" argument? It either always was part of the hazard (and should have been so marked) or it is not. It doesn't change its nature because it has been fenced off.

[PeteyD]

It is only part of the hazard if it is in it, or forms the boundary of it.

[Hatchman]

It is only part of the hazard if it is in it, or forms the boundary of it.

Are you inferring that the part that's inside the boundary of the hazard is part of the hazard (no free drop) and the part that's outside is a free drop?
Or are you referring to a man made object only inside the hazard?